To think boarding schools are an expensive version of neglect?

[WriterofDreams]

I don't get boarding schools at all. Especially for young children. I will never forget watching a documentary about 7 year olds being sent to boarding school and the fear and upset the poor girls went through being separated from their families. For what? The mums seemed to think the poor children's suffering was necessary in service of their futures. Surely it's more important for them to grow up in their families and enjoy their siblings? I don't have a huge amount of personal experience of boarding schools so I may be missing something important. I do know however know two adults who were sent to boarding school as young children and consider themselves seriously damaged by it.

Surely it's better for a young child to be raised by people who genuinely love them than by a house mother who may be kind and loving but who essentially is just doing a job? AIBU to see boarding school as a form of high class care system for the wealthy?

Insinuating that I don't work, swallowed?

I have a job. It's a very nice one but it doesn't pay for us to run 2 households in 2 completely separate countries with 'commuting' costs for DH to see us plus the FT childcare that would be needed, because although I'd effectively be a lone parent I wouldn't be getting any help for that. We'll ignore the fact that it's also a State job and I probably wouldn't have it if I upped and offed and left. I had an even better paying job (as a 24/5 nanny actually) but that wasn't terribly compatible with being married either. Of course clearly what I should have done is waited to get pregnant until we could afford that or until DHs contract is up. Because you can control life like that, can't you?

Now I personally don't plan to pack my children off blithely as some seem to assume that all horrid, neglectful military parents will but it may well be an unavoidable possibility at some point. And we'd be paying full fees to a UK boarding school because the majority if boarding school's in DH's country are for very troubled children indeed and do have a bad reputation.

The MoD pays about £5583 per term max per child if they board. Not all forces children board.

If you are due to be moved at very short notice and your accommodation is tied to the geographical location at which your husband serves and you are required to vacate that Married Quarter, then you have no choice but to move as there will be someone else wanting the Quarter you are marching out of.

To get CEA you have to be mobile and move each time your husband is posted, otherwise you'd stay put, as I did for years, whilst I worked and paid for the school fees myself.

If you have no other home but Married Quarters then you cannot stay put (unless they are deployed or you have your own home) when they are posted. It's nonsensical to have a wife in Plymouth in an MQ and the husband in Fas Lane/abroad in service accommodation. If you cost that, then MoD is paying for food, travel (Get you home package), the cost of building and maintaining single accommodation for married unaccompanieds, the utilities, the cleaning staff, the maintenance staff, the catering contract, the security, which could well add up to more than the cost of a married quarter and boarding fees, but don't let that get in the way of a good argument.

We are not required to buy and sell every two years, but for those that are mobile, it is a nightmare. As I said earlier, dh's ex boss is due to move in 14 days. They don't know where they will be sent; thus, they don't know where they will live, if an MQ will be available, and if their kids weren't at Uni, they would not be able to apply for a school as they don't know where they are going to be. They can't do anything until they have that info, and they have two weeks until they move. Add kids into that mix, especially at secondary age, and it is a complete nightmare, as most LEAs won't let you apply without an address, so a move during the academic year with very little choice doesn't help a child's education at all.

Postings do not happen in line with Key Stages either. We are due to move middle of KS5, hence, ds will board for two years.

I like the idea of Forces boarding schools and have no problem with that, but the cost of setting them up and running them may well be more than the CEA costs, as you would need some in the SW, some in the SE, some in the North etc.

There is no room for abuse in the CEA system and any abuse is investigated by SIB. If found to be abusing the system you can be dismissed the service with concomitant loss of pension. Not worth it.

As to the wives don't work - well I worked from age 24 (once I graduated) to 40 before moving abroad with dh when he was posted, and always paid tax. Dh pays shedloads of tax as well, and it is unusual for Forces personnel to get tax credits. Perhaps you'd like to think of CEA as childcare tax credits for the Forces?

I work part time abroad, but as I am abroad, the money isn't subject to UK tax, and that would be the same for any wife who works abroad. The portion of work that I do do that is UK based is taxed, but I claim a refund as I earn under the UK threshold.

Accommodation isn't 'provided' in the sense that it's free - we pay for it, rent, utilities, CTAX (CILOCT), rent for the garage. Some MQs are a bloody disgrace and the MoD should be either letting the occupants have it rent free, or paying them to live in it. There is also no choice about where you go. My db moved from Cornwall to Portsmouth and was told take the MQ or leave it, as there is nothing else and there are 10 other families after it, so you can't even choose which catchment you are in for schools.

A friend is moving back to UK, and although she knows where they are going, they won't let her have an MQ address as it is 'too soon'. Thus, she moves in July, and it is hard at the end of the academic year to slot two boys into Year 8 and 10, not knowing which schools they could go to because they won't tell you which MQ you are being allocated.

Realistically Ladies, how long could you maintain not seeing your husbands if they were abroad? If you could only see them every six weeks as they couldn't afford the trip home each weekend? I know that I couldn't have done it for more than the two years I did - how many of you have ever been faced with choice of this in reality as opposed to hypothesising on this thread?

WOD - your OP is about boarding per se as opposed to just for younger kids, as you say 'you don't get boarding schools at all'

Scaryteacher In that case my SIL has definitely abused the system for years without getting found out.

Linerunner - my Big Question here is not likely to be answered, due to the conspiracy of silence on the issue of drugs in private/boarding schools, despite high-profile customers such as the minor Royals and other aristos etc. ; my Big Question to any member of staff in a boarding school is: can you truthfully tell me you know the children and/or care about them enough to be able to tell whether they are smoking / drinking / abusing drugs / vomiting after meals etc.? As much as their parents would do, provided that they have daily contact?

Smoking was rife at my boarding school amongst my 14 year old peers.

Not all forces families are 2.4 kids though. Mine is 1.

You need to look at the costs of doing it another way Swallowed.

Family remains in UK, in own home say. Mum works F/T teaching in comp, and pays day fees for prep as no wrap around care any other way,and gps live in different part of the UK.

Father serves married unaccompanied abroad. No service accommodation there (Mess or barracks) so the MoD have to rent private accommodation for him. As he is married unaccompanied that is a two bed flat (new build) at a cost of about 1200 euros a month paid by MoD as servicemen don't pay rent if serving unaccompanied as they are paying housing costs in UK. The MOD also has to pick up the utilities and CTAX as he wouldn't have to pay those if he was in a Mess or barracks, so they pay gas, electricity, CTAX, water etc. They also have to furnish the flat with beds, sofas, desk, wardrobes, dining table and chairs, chests of drawers, sideboard etc. If you tot all that up, you are looking at about 18000/19000 euros per year, so CEA begins at that point to look like a credible alternative, especially if you are tied into long private leases that you may not need because the housing market abroad works in a different way to the UK rental market.

All you are seeing is the headline CEA figure. What you are not thinking about is that this argument goes around every so often, but it is cheaper for the MoD to pay CEA in many cases than the alternative. It also depends on where you are sent. I wouldn't choose to take ds to Algeria or Moscow for a posting, or even Bulgaria.

albertcamus that is a very good Big Question. I seem to recall that one of my boarding school matrons was a tad touched in the head (she sent herself flowers on Valentine's Day, that kind of thing) thus it was unlikely that she would notice anything untoward involving any of her charges. Actually a lot of the teachers were barking mad but I suppose it was meant to be 'character building'. Also, I don't think they were paid very much, because unlike state schools they didn't need formal teaching qualifications.

I do recall lots of drinking, smoking, some (but not much) dope, tons of sex involving the boys' school next door, some eating disorders, and much misery and much happiness.

Of the 12 girls in my year, who were also in my boarding house, so in other words those I spent the most time with ... 10 went to Oxford and Cambridge!

BUT 2 were anorexic, all 12 of us were on a permanent diet, 7 of us smoked, 5 of us lost our viginity before age 16 (and 10 had by age 18), 8 tried/did drugs at school, 5 were given sleeping pills/antidepressants prescibed by school doctor...

and none of us came out very 'normal' emotionally!

When my husband finally confronted his mother about why she sent him to Boarding School at the age of 7, he was furhther traumatised by her answer that HE had made the decision, not her. That really confounded him - the idea that he was responsble for his own misery! He had never said he wanted to go but he had said he wanted to be with his brother. His brother was also there.

The fact is he wasn't old enough to make such a decision! His tears and bed wetting failed to register with her.

Line runner: There is an anonymous fraud helpline, 0800 161 3665, for those who feel that they are aware of incidents of inappropriate claiming of CEA. Please make a report.

The teenagers I used to see were at a formal school dinner and many many of the older boys were going out after the main course to smoke outside. I'm not saying chidlren don't smoke at private day schools (although my 3 don't) but simply that if you are totally suffused in the ethos of a place where you are 24/7 during albeit short term times, it is much much harder to resist peer pressure.

Now this can work to the good if the environment is making you get good exams, have a good accent, do good sports etc (although you get that in our best day schools) but it also means the influence of the bad is also unadulterated. Some home influence is appalling and children do much better away from abuysive parents of course - it's not all clear cut and some chidlren (not most) can resist peer pressure(and all state and private day schools have children with drugs problems) but I do think the boarding schools have more.

If you're coming home to your parents' dinner every night they probably can see better if you're not eating or got down to 7 stone (caveat - lots of high achieving girls in state and private schools have eating disorders but they run amok more where you are with your peers 24/7).

It's a matter of risk. Day awful comp well may be the parents should move but they like the country area with no opportunities for chidlren other than to drink cider at the local bus stop . Most parents don't like boarding schools and wouldn't choose them even if they could afford them.

I also think they curb the freedom of the child too much and your ability to be individual. It's like going into prison or the army. You are institutionalised. They can produce dull conformists - some not all.

Not a conspiracy of silence at ours. No drugs. No EDs either fwiw. A couple of students caught and suspended for a cigarette. It really was like this; most girls wanted to be the best at studying, sport, music and being happy. Because it was highly valued.

Great for naturally able children. Hideous for the slightly different children. That is a huge thing I agree, the parents of the low down must have not had any idea. That is terrible.

And good as only for post 12.

She'll get a shock under the new rules then Linerunner.

Albertcamus - my friend is a house-mistress at a girls baording school. She knows her girls very well and the amount of effort that goes into that is tremendous. She has also had two teens of her own, so knows what to look for.

Ds goes to an international day where drugs and self harming are rife, so it is not confined to boarding by any means. Drugs were rife at the comps I taught at as well, even in rural Cornwall, so it is not a solely private school problem.

Line you are clearly a lot younger than me - lucky you to have so much fun and yet emerge compus mentis ! Mine was from 1976 for 7 years, when they still got away with Victorian routines 24/7 : I was 30 by the time I realised how good for me the routines were ... but now I teach teenagers and have brought up my own DCs who are now in their 20s, I wouldn't touch today's boarding schools with a bargepole. Interesting that so few staff in them are contributing to this thread

"I do recall lots of drinking, smoking, some (but not much) dope, tons of sex involving the boys' school next door, some eating disorders, and much misery and much happiness."

That pretty much sums up the state day school I went to!

Scary, I agree that my OP referred to boarding schools in general but then a few posters talked about the positive experiences they had as teenagers and I stated in a later post that BS for teenagers may be ok, depending on the school and the teenager. I am able to change my mind.

I still maintain however that there is absolutely no justification for sending a child younger than 11 to BS. The situation you describe with moving around does sound horrendous but I still think the parents should find a way around all that rather than making the children suffer.

Exactly Meditrina, except mine was a mixed comp, and you forgot the teenage pregnancies - three girls were due to pop when we left in 1982.

I went to both state and posh public school - there was lots less drugs, drink and smoking in the ststae school. The kids were much more immature at the comp. but in a good way - at boarding school it was a race to grow up.

Ah the stories I could tell about minor European and Arabian royalty!

I was perfect of course.

My school really was all prep / supper / plays and hockey sticks etc

Isn't there any one else who went to a good one with this experience?

Well if we're going to start name dropping I'll start the bidding:

I sat next to Michael Caine's daughter Natasha in Sociology and did Philosophy with Haya Al Hussein the Crown Princess of Jordan. And at prep school I played rounders with Zara and Peter Philips! In fact I once dropped Zara in a cowpat!

WoD, many do try to find a way around it, and if one knew where you would be sent next, you could plan accordingly. However, for the most part you don't know, so it is hard. Dh in the space of 4 appointments went from Plymouth to Northwood to Bracknell to Shrivenham to Plymouth and then abroad. One of those was a move at 4 weeks notice. I stayed in our house, but it would have been hard to move ds 4 times at intervals of 18 months, 1 year, 18 months and 2 years. Makes me pretty unemployable as well once you see leaving a teaching job that frequently on a CV.

Scary I find it very interesting that you say a man serving abroad without his family doesn't have to pay rent. So what on earth is all this guff then about running two households??