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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think breast fed babies are more intellegent

1002 replies

thecatamongthepidgeons · 13/03/2011 19:52

Because their parents tend to be more intellegent not because they were breast fed?
More intellegent parents are more likely to choose to breast feed regardless of any dificulties they face if they think it will benefit their children.

OP posts:
boosmummie · 16/03/2011 13:17

Nah, I've had my say on here, just wanted to tell you I love you! I've done both, don't care what people say, but I do want to support STDG if necessary as she's been in the firing line unnecessarily so - that old non-reading the important bits again!

boosmummie · 16/03/2011 13:19

Hey Becs how's your poor old head butted laptop.... Grin

I've already declared my love for the very same!

Spudulika · 16/03/2011 13:20

"is to persuade posters like you of the need to tackle this subject carefully and with tact"

I agree that we should all start from the position that as mothers we all try to do our best for our babies - based on what we know and what is feasible and livable for us as individuals.

It makes me upset when I see people implying that those who stopped bf early didn't 'try hard enough' or don't care enough. I know this isn't true. I also know that women who don't choose to bf feel they have their babies' best interests at heart. I acknowledge the grief and anger of women who tried and couldn't breastfeed.

But the disappointment, grief and (unnecessary) guilt of women who can't/haven't bf their baby is often used to stifle debate on this subject - to call for silence on the subject of the health risks of using formula - which are not widely known about or understood. I think this is plain wrong. I really don't think anyone has a moral or personal argument for trying to suppress the discussion about formula.

I also think it's outrageous the way those of us who voice concerns about formula milk as 'nazis', 'zealots' - all the mud slinging, spite and sneering. It's really ugly and it's WRONG. We have a right to discuss this issue frankly and freely. If you've used formula and it upsets you to hear this - put your fingers in your ears. If you disagree with what's being said then put up a logical argument against. But stop with all the moralising, emotional blackmail and the personal insults. It's demeaning.

"The government would not allow for the only alternative to breast milk to be nutritionally inferior but rather the best alternative for those that need it".

Formula IS nutritionally inferior to breastmilk! Even the companies that make it acknowledge this! It is ADEQUATE to sustain normal growth and development. But it's still inferior to breastmilk, which sets the standard as to what is the most appropriate and safest food for babies. Formula isn't better and it isn't equal. It's therefore inferior.

RubyBuckleberry · 16/03/2011 13:24

i really can't get over the fact that someone (many people??) has a spreadsheet with a list of posters names on - that is hilarious Grin and not just a bit sad!

it is right that people should be sensitive in discussing these things. this point has been covered pretty well i'd say. equally, it is important to put one's own history aside if one is to debate these things rigorously. anyone with any knowledge of successful debating knows that Confused. and this is aibu.

anyway, can we move forward with this debate - redirect discussion perhaps, or perhaps this is a big old dead donkey of a thread that is not actually tackling anything anymore.

RubyBuckleberry · 16/03/2011 13:26

"I also think it's outrageous the way those of us who voice concerns about formula milk as 'nazis', 'zealots' - all the mud slinging, spite and sneering. It's really ugly and it's WRONG. We have a right to discuss this issue frankly and freely. If you've used formula and it upsets you to hear this - put your fingers in your ears. If you disagree with what's being said then put up a logical argument against. But stop with all the moralising, emotional blackmail and the personal insults. It's demeaning."

Are you actually reading this those of you banging on about boobygangs and spreadsheets etc etc etc

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 16/03/2011 13:36

Ruby - on a side note - I'm not sure if the spreadsheets actually exist, or are just a bit of an 'in joke'.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 16/03/2011 13:40

I did want to come back to the poster who said that far more formula fed babies than breastfed babies end up being admitted to hospital.

Are you saying that a higher percentage of formula fed babies will end up with hospital admissions, or is it simple numbers that you are looking at? Obviously if it is the former, and a higher percentage of formula fed babies will be admitted to hospital than breastfed babies, then that is not good.

However, if it is simple numbers you're looking at, then the fact that far more babies are formula fed will mean that you will see more formula fed babies being admitted to hospital.

MilaMae · 16/03/2011 13:40

See Spud you're still doing it "health risks of formula".

I'll spell it out slowly.

We all know all there is to know about formula(you'd have to live on Mars not to),the fact is none of us give a shit because these "risks" you delight in banging on about for the vast majority of mothers in this country are so tiny they're not worth obsessing over.

There are umpteen other parenting issues that effect kids more a zillion times over, you refuse to except that.We pick we choose we do what we want to for our kids. Formula is but one of many parenting issues to worry about and actually is something pretty trivial when you look at bigger issues like lifetime eating patterns,time we spend with our kids,sleep,how we manage bad behaviour,exercise etc,etc.

Scaremongering mums into thinking formula is something to seriously worry about is wrong and aint going to change diddly squat so except that and quit with the scaremongering.

RubyBuckleberry · 16/03/2011 13:49

i just don't know how you can say that MilaMae, i really don't. Because what if someone's child is one of the ones who gets breast cancer or gastroenteritis or whatever - because they were not breastfed. Well that is no longer a tiny risk is it - its a big fat f*ing in your face reality?!

I just don't get how you can be so blase about it.

I hope I haven't offended you in this post to the extent that people will start again with the insults.

boosmummie · 16/03/2011 13:52

I'm not sure that not being breastfed is one of the contributing factors to breast cancer??? Confused

And I'm not sure that MilaMae is being blasé either. She has continuously put forward valid and sensible statements throughout this somewhat circular thread...

RubyBuckleberry · 16/03/2011 13:55

isn't it. pretty sure its in most of the literature. but then are we going with the idea that most of the literature is rubbish???

TandB · 16/03/2011 13:58

Ruby. I am interested to know how medical science has advanced enough to tell whether someone who contracts breast cancer does so because they were formula fed.

Do tell.

Fortunately, my grandmother is no longer around to hear whether or not BFing her daughter led to said daughter's death from breast cancer. Bet she would have been on tenterhooks for that bit of information.

boosmummie · 16/03/2011 13:58

It MAY possibly help prevent Breast Cancer in BF women in families where there is a history, however it will have no adverse affect either way if there is no family history.

I'll try and find the Reuters link, but whatever, we are just going round in circles. Not one person has stated that Breast milk isn't the best possible nutrition for a baby, however

MilaMae · 16/03/2011 14:04

Well re b cancer you need to be part of the at risk group,you aint going to catch it because you didn't bf.

Re gastroenteritus. Now I ff 3 babies within 15 months and never once did they get v&d. I actually know absolutely nobody that had a hospitalised baby with v&d baby let alone anybody who on arrival was told "it was formula wot did it,we have 100% proof".

Does anybody on here,I mean really?

Where are all these hoards of seriously ill babies hospitalised due to formula?

The fact is you prepare you're formula safely the risks are miniscule.I managed to do when in a zombie like status with 3 so it clearly isn't hard.

Also once babies start crawling the amount of utter shite they shovel into their gobs makes formula look like manna from the gods.

I'll say it again GET SOME BLOODY PERSPECTIVE on the issue.

boosmummie · 16/03/2011 14:04

Sorry, my super intelligent mixed fed baby hit return before I was ready....Here's what I was trying to say (that first bit was tongue in cheek BTW)

It MAY possibly help prevent Breast Cancer in BF women in families where there is a history, however it will have no adverse affect either way if there is no family history.

I'll try and find the Reuters link, but whatever, we are just going round in circles. Not one person has stated that Breast milk isn't the best possible nutrition for a baby, however the OP was whether it creates more intelligent babies. It doesn't.

What just saddens me on this thread is the nastiness that has been spouted at those who have had a dreadful time while either trying to feed their babies, or have tried and tried and tried, but have just been unable to. I am a woman in both camps having done 2 of my children with BF and two FF, there is no difference in the general, day to day intelligence between my children.

I have been one of those mothers who had a terrible time BF, but I didn't get affected in some awful ways that some of these lovely women did and I just think that some of the vitriol one can read through this thread does little to promote BF in calm and sensitive way to those that are struggling.

RubyBuckleberry · 16/03/2011 14:04

According to Jack Newman, women who were fed formula had a 33% increase in breast cancer rates. is this rubbish? or not something to take seriously?

(not trying to stir - am interested in how people interpret something like that. have i been had so to speak?

RubyBuckleberry · 16/03/2011 14:06

'Also once babies start crawling the amount of utter shite they shovel into their gobs makes formula look like manna from the gods.'

fair point, although breastmilk is protective in that respect...

RubyBuckleberry · 16/03/2011 14:07

sorry - i keep going off on one because MilaMae keeps saying it doesn't matter and from what I have read it does.

you are right, this thread is about intelligence so i suppose we should stick to the point - although tangents are allowed, no?

anyway, i should go...

TandB · 16/03/2011 14:14

Have you tried not "going off on one" but responding moderately and carefully instead?

Just a thought.

boosmummie · 16/03/2011 14:22

for most sensibleist poster goes to Kungfu, but I do have a girl crush so may be a biased award...

MilaMae · 16/03/2011 14:23

Well my dd's list of unsavory consumptions include:-dogs poo,snails,worms, a rat dropping,2 week out of date yog,other kid's dummies,filthy M&T toys....... She was fine,never hospitalised. You don't need to bf to have a healthy kid sorry.

TandB · 16/03/2011 14:26

[considers printing out boosmummie's post and sticking it on office wall to prove capable of being sensible, contrary to popular belief]

boosmummie · 16/03/2011 14:29

2 week out of date yogurt - pah I need to be shot then. DD3 has just had one dated 19 Feb. It's a culture, it don't really matter!!!!! Dummy off floor - check, snails - check, food off floor (inside and outside - do I get double points for that, please?) done too. BF - Not this one...

boosmummie · 16/03/2011 14:30

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Kung

pommedeterre · 16/03/2011 14:44

just don't know how you can say that MilaMae, i really don't. Because what if someone's child is one of the ones who gets breast cancer or gastroenteritis or whatever - because they were not breastfed. Well that is no longer a tiny risk is it - its a big fat f*ing in your face reality?!

I just don't get how you can be so blase about it.

If a formula fed child contracts cancer or gastroenteritis you will NEVER know if it was because they were ff. You will NEVER know that if they had been bf they wouldn't have got that.

So.

You are talking shite.

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