To think breast fed babies are more intellegent

[thecatamongthepidgeons]

Because their parents tend to be more intellegent not because they were breast fed?
More intellegent parents are more likely to choose to breast feed regardless of any dificulties they face if they think it will benefit their children.

Bf children also contract these diseases too you know Ruby.

Ooo I am so hopping mad with this thread.

I need a tea to calm down.

formula is inferior?

I don?t agree that formula is inferior under all circumstances, some woman cannot produce the amount they need or the quality they need in order for their babies to thrive.

So surely under these circumstances formula isn?t inferior, giving the infant not only the nourishment that it needs but also the mother and other family members the chance to bond through what could have been a very difficult time.

"Are you saying that a higher percentage of formula fed babies will end up with hospital admissions"

Yes

FF babies are more likely to see their GP and be admitted to hospital than exclusively bf babies, even when social class and education of parents is controlled for.

"is the nastiness that has been spouted at those who have had a dreadful time while either trying to feed their babies, or have tried and tried and tried, but have just been unable to"

Other than my comment about 'competitive suffering' (which I'll admit wasn't the kindest), what other 'nastiness' has been 'spouted' towards these mothers?

I don't recall seeing anything that is personally critical of their choices.

"I am a woman in both camps having done 2 of my children with BF and two FF, there is no difference in the general, day to day intelligence between my children."

Sorry to be rude but.....DUH! You know that bf may make a difference of between 3 to 6 points on IQ? Unless your children are identical twins who've lived completely identical lives, and then been IQ tested under controlled conditions - how on earth would you be able to measure what difference your feeding choices may have made to their cognitive development?

"this thread does little to promote BF in calm and sensitive way to those that are struggling"

If you want to hear things that promote breastfeeding in a 'sensitive way to those who are struggling', then bog off to one of the bf support lines/ support threads on the bf board on mumsnet. This is a discussion/debate forum and we're talking about the benefits (or otherwise) of breastfeeding.

OK - it's all about context, innit!

"let alone anybody who on arrival was told "it was formula wot did it,we have 100% proof".

Even people who smoke who get lung cancer don't have 100% proof that it was fags that caused the disease and not something else. If they did cigarette companies would have been sued out of existence by now!

"I don?t agree that formula is inferior under all circumstances, some woman cannot produce the amount they need or the quality they need in order for their babies to thrive"

I agree.

If the mother can't/won't breastfeed then formula is obviously superior to starvation or cows milk.

Sorry - I mean unprocessed cows milk'.

Comeandsit at my shrine too please! There's room for you there too.

Well, apart from bringing my children up in the same way, reading, learning, doing, the only difference between them is that some were BF and some were FF and I doubt that how I fed them made a blinding bit of difference to their intelligence. Although if we want to nit pick further, my DD2 who was exclusively FF is the most intelligent overall, gaining straight A/A in her 8 (early GCSEs) and predicted another 8 A in the ones she's taking this year. And this is NOT a brag about my daughter, but needed to prove this boring round and round intelligence point.

I think 3-6 points is a matter of supreme indifference to most, unless they wish to get 148 in their Mensa IQ test, when I suppose they'd be majorly peeved if their damn mother had FF and they got 147 .

I imagine one reason more bottle fed babies end up in hospital is that some babies are bottle fed precisely because there is some other problem, which also leads to more hospital admissions. Correlation and all that stuff. My dd has had a vast amount of hospital visits, not usually for problems caused by her failure to thrive, but for problems caused by the same condition which also caused her failure to thrive (and might well have led to bottle feeding if I had been less pigheaded). And no researcher would have been able to allow for this as her condition had not been diagnosed.

However, I am quite willing to believe that breast is actually healthier and does cut down on some health problems by encouraging immunity and a healthy gut flora.

Oh, and I know I keep bringing this up, but ime of breastfeeding Scandinavian countries, mums that call themselves breastfeeding often do top up or bung in the odd supplementary bottle. All my relatives have done, but they still would call themselves breastfeeding on any survey.

"If you want to hear things that promote breastfeeding in a 'sensitive way to those who are struggling', then bog off to one of the bf support lines/ support threads on the bf board on mumsnet."

Nice. Really nice.

Rollit get to the shrine, your seat awaits.

Getting crowded at the shrine.

[Contemplates making breakway shrine]

kungfupanda is posting that formula has no risks remotely moderate? no!

this is so unbelievable hypocritical i am off. it is like i am talking a different language. cue bitchy comments about how i probably am as i am part of some boobygang or some such tripe.

S'alright, I made it big enough for a few more as I know they're out there!

Interesting about use of formula in Scandinavia - a place we are all supposed to be emulating in our lactating enthusiam. I have come across a few UK ladies who answer bf for medical records but use formula - most commonly as the last feed before bedtime.
Medical records are never going to be 100% accurate for these types of reasons.
I said no to bf at 6 weeks as was mixed feeding by then. No mixed feeding option though...

Ruby - taking the approach that you won't be moderate and sensible because others aren't being moderate and sensible is something that generally stops working around about the time we leave primary school.

If you genuinely care about the points that you are making then you will make them in a way that does them justice, no matter what manner others adopt.

If, however, you just fancy a bit of blatant superiority and judging, then you will obviously just get into a bunfight because that is more fun.

FWIW I do think you are talking a different language - one which has had all the empathetic and tactful words removed.

i didn't say that i thought my posts weren't moderate and sensible. except for the first one i think they have been! i was making the point that all sorts of adjectives have been used to describe the points i have been making yet the minute anyone addresses a point that a 'formula has no risks' poster says all the boobygang comments come out which is just really ridiculous and not remotely moderate or sensible.

this thread is like the bermuda triangle.

You said "I keep going off on one".

And no, I don't think your posts have been moderate and sensible and most other posters seem to share that view.

Bermuda triangle is where ships and planes allegedly disappeared in unexplained circumstances. Not sure I see the connection.

you are also accusing me of simply wanting a bunfight(?) because it is more fun, which is also a bit ridiculous.

'If you genuinely care about the points that you are making then you will make them in a way that does them justice, no matter what manner others adopt.'

On this thread, it wouldn't matter what i said. as long as i keep saying that actually formula has risks and breastfeeding matters (which is actually all i have been saying in response to the opposite which some people insist on, that is enough ammunition for the people frequenting this thread.

sucked in kungfupanda, thats all i was saying...

POsting pictures of nearly dead babies doesn't really come under the premise of "reasonable".

I'll have them with my breastmilk frappaccinnoooo thanks.

Someone has a spreadsheet? Really?

I just remember the twats because they never stop making fools of themselves over the same issue(s).

I'd personally love to be able to forget who those people are, but they pop up TIME and again.

Not much going on in their RL's, obviously