To think breast fed babies are more intellegent

[thecatamongthepidgeons]

Because their parents tend to be more intellegent not because they were breast fed?
More intellegent parents are more likely to choose to breast feed regardless of any dificulties they face if they think it will benefit their children.

comesit just do it it sure would be the best thing on this thread

sigh.

Ok.

My ds1 was born early with undiagnosed IUGR. He was 4lbs 15oz at birth. He could not suck well. I had retained placental tissue and (I later found out) this is why my milk didnt "come in". He went on to develop jaundice on day 2. He received no special care. When I ventured to ask a MW if he needed to be in SCBU she laughed at me and told me they had had "much smaller babies" than my ds on the ward before.

Despite these issues, and me telling them that no milk was coming out and ds1 was getting tired the MW put me on a breast pump....Not a drop of milk came out.

Then they decided to hand express my milk. Despite them pummelling and squeezing my breasts for hours......all that came out was blood. They tried to feed him the bloody stuff that came out...needless to day he wasnt too keen.

After I could take no more I asked them to stop...I was crying with the pain of this (and I had given birth with no pain relief)

Ds1 was discharged on day 3 and - surprise surprise - the next day was readmitted and had an NG tube inserted to feed him FF as I was still not producing milk.

To say I felt a failure is to put it mildly.

Ds1 was still not taken to SCBU, but taken to the normal paed ward. It was hideous. The nurses were horrible and even admitted to me "we arent set up for babies this small"

My poor baby was put under the lights and was fed via tube for a week when he was discharged again as he was back to his birth weight.

He was a very poorly baby, couldnt feed well, very floppy, didnt sleep well. In was out of my mind with worry and lack of sleep. The (useless) HV finally listened to me when ds1 was 6 weeks old when I rang her and told her he wasnt well and that he was still jaundiced.

Cue appt for bloods to be taken at hospital (where they made me feel even more stupid for being worried) and then next day cue a frantic phone call from the consultant haemotologist to tell me ds1 had a strep infection in his blood and to take him straight back to hospital. I thought he was going to die. He had a week on IV ABs back on the saem ward as before with the same horrible nurses.

I have not had a very good experience with HCPs and their "help" as you can tell, and the idea that all BF issues can be "solved" by them and that all mothers need to solve BF issues is to express milk is laughable.

What do all you BFers suggest for mothers like me????

I count myself lucky my ds1 is here and still with us, I no longer feel guilty about not BFing.

I do feel guilty for listening to those stupid, ignorant MW and HV with those stupid, pointless ID holders that state "breast is best", and not standing up for my son sooner and getting him what he needed...i.e. fucking sustenance!!!

Some of you have no fucking clue what it is like, obviously, to watch your baby literally fade away in front of you...if you had you would shut the fuck up.

Jesus, now I am crying as I type.

The inverted commas suggest you do not accept that some generally cant bf,it is those women who this type of statement offends.

I still dont get why it bothers bf's so much how other people feed.

As for no support i beg to differ.I could get no advice or info re ff my dd,when i asked it was suggested i see a bf counsellor despite my mastectomy "just in caes"

When dd now 6wks had to return to the hospital for a week when she was 3 days old i was told i wouldnt be fed unless i was bf,i was 3days post section therefore couldnt drive,10 miles from home,anaemic and there were no facilities to prepare food,i ended up very ill with an infection which i still have,dd has cleft palate so couldnt have fed her anyway.

I think the balance was a little tipped in both those cases.

Becaroo - my heart goes out to you - that is such a horrible experience for you and your ds to have had - and clearly it was compounded by the attitudes and actions of the HCPs you had the misfortune to be treated by.

I can really empathise with what you are saying about watching your child fade away - I have photos of ds2 that make me feel sick with guilt and sadness because he is so pale, thin and ill-looking in them - all because I couldn't feed him (and didn't either get the help I needed or know where else to go to get different help).

I wish I could give you a huge hug and make you feel better about this.

Becaroo - that must have been really hard and horrible for you. I can imagine just revisiting the memories is sooo hard even when your ds1 is healthy and well now. How very scary.
It makes me grateful that formula does exist now. But then I am grateful for all modern technology and medicine because without it I would be dead and even if I wasn't I certainly wouldn't have been having any children.

And, yes, formula is definitely medicine in certain cases with your post the proof of it.

Becarooo, I really feel for you, it's horrendous. My little girl would have been exactly the same without formula top-ups. Luckily for me, the hospital suggested it without too much fuss, and without any suggestion that it would affect breastfeeding - as I say, I went on to EBF. To me, the aggressive breastfeeding types are thinking more about their own smugness rather than their babies. When a tiny baby is hungry and thirsty, you want to get food and fluid into their poor little bodies, not sit around making them and yourself ill and upset. You were treated appallingly, but well done on getting your little one sorted out and better.

Ledkr I too don't get this obsession with how other mothers feed their children for such a relatively short period of time.

Seriously if you want to get your knickers in a twist about something start berating mothers about how much sleep their kids get,how they interact with their dc,the exercise they provide etc,etc,etc.All of these things will have a far bigger impact on a kid's life chances.

Sorry but the continual obsession,stats reciting,push,push pushing is what sounds unhinged,it's an obsession.

Great you do a very small part of parenting the preferred way,big woopy do,there are plenty of other aspects of parenting I'm sure you don't do perfectly. When you can provide proof that you've done absolutely everything else perfectly and have raised a perfect 18 year old then feel free to lecture.

For all Mothers who find breastfeeding hard, for all Mothers who don?t do it, and are not doing it right now and for all those who are and can.........

You are welcome to support each other in the witness of comesitbythefire streaking through this thread!

If I have to stand up and tell you all, YOU ARE ALL wonderful mothers,(for thoses that are)then so be it.

Thank you.

Thank you both

I shouldnt have posted all that, really, it brings it all back and I get a bit panic stricken and weepy

The point I was trying to make (badly!) was that for successful BFers to say that all FFers need to be able to BF is more "help" and "support" and that often, "expressing" solves the initial problems make me so angry. The truth is so, so different.

I dont want to sound melodramatic but I thank God every day that my lovely, sweet, kind and funny ds1 is here with me.

My eldest nephew was born at 27 weeks after my sis developed sever pre-eclampsia. They both nearly died. He was FF and to see him running around with my dc now is like watching a walking, talking miracle

I am very grateful to "artificial milk". I dont think much of HCPs anymore.

OP - Your child is obviously lucky to have such an intelligent mother...
I do hope you manage to lead us all by example in every area of your life.

and so say i

Do you know what I am sick of the obsession we seem to have regarding BF/FF and the vitriol some people use towards each other. In some parts of the world most mothers receive NO medical care before , during or after birth. They risk death every time they are pregnant and face losing many of their DC's before they even reach their 1st birthday. Thousands of women are damaged by childbirth antd face a lifetime of exclusion and poverty because of that. Millions of our fellow mother exist on a dollar a day and face the reality of prostitution just to feed their children. FFS get angry about that and not the relatively insignificant parental choices of people who on the whole are rich and educated enough to make their own decisions.

Sorry all, just Becaroooo made me feel all supportive, I could have died when I was pregnant I was so ill, I weighed less than 5 and a half stone at 4 months in, I worked so hard to keep going and when DD arrived I was just so grateful we were alive. She was nearly 8 pounds too. I had to top up and I'm glad I did.

well said hobnobsaremyfave.

CSBTF 5.5 stone??? You poor thing.

hobnob I completely agree with you.

But, because my ds1 and I did not get good medical care and I nearly lost him, I feel that my experience is not "insignificant".....And that goes for lots of other mothers in the west too....we dont all get good medical care and babies in the west die before their 1st birthday too, sadly.

Sorry Becaroo I didn't want to trivialise your experience at all . Apologies if I have offended.

Yes, I look bloody wonderful now though, that was seven years ago.

Thats ok hobnob

This thread has pushed a lot of peoples buttons. Its such an emotive subject, not helped by the BFers who just dont understand the issues that some of us face when trying to feed our children.

I vividly remember an aunt of mine phoning up when ds1 was about 3 weeks old - she was trying to be supportive and helpful (she BF all her dc) and she said;
"all babies need is food and love".

And I couldnt do it I couldnt feed him.

And babies cant live on love

people keep saying why do the bfers bother about the way a mother feeds her baby, and the reason is because it bothers the mother. mothers want to breastfeed, and they are more often than not, failed by those that are supposed to support them. that is what makes me so angry and makes me post pictures of dying babies when other posters repeatedly post anecdotal rubbish about how they have the healthiest, slimmest, most able to read by the age of two children ever and they were fully formula fed. well that is great. but there are women who are devastated by failing at breastfeeding at those are the ones who deserve someone to get angry on their behalf. so go ahead, tell me i am being offensive. and i will say right back at you. it is offensive to all the people working tirelessly round the globe to try and turn the tide on infant feeding to hear that breastfeeding is inconsequential. it is not inconsequential to the baby. it is not inconsequential to the mother, and it is not inconsequential to this planet either, considering the amount of plastic and other materials that are used to box, distribute and manufacture billions of pounds worth of artificial milk for infants, and, toddler milk aswell.

so yes, be pissed off at me for writing in a less than palatable fashion. but don't tell me that i am pissed off because breastfeeding is the 'only thing i got right' or some such ridiculous ramblings. women and babies deserve to breastfeed. and if we all sit back and say oh well, not to worry, formula is perfectly good, this will never happen. how could anyone just accept that?!

Becarooo of course you are grateful for your LO for being here. You had a horrible horrible time but you both got through it which is fantastic, and thank f for formula! like my LO - emcs - thank f for the surgeon, despite me being a total active birth advocate. its the same thing - a emcs is less than ideal but sometimes there is no other way and that is fine. but you can't then say well it is inconsequential when many women are put at risk by having unnecessary cesareans.

and finally, some of you are talking about things like engorgement being the end of breastfeeding - well things like that are just about the management of breastfeeding. lots of mothers can happily get over things like that if they are given the right advice.

Sorry Olivetti - I understand what you're saying. And you're right, sometimes formula DOES have a role in helping a mum continue to breastfeed, as in your case.

"If not all woman find expressing easy does that mean they might not find breasfeeding easy?"

No, I don't think that's the case. Lots of women have no problem bf but find expressing hard work!

"Do you think it gets better with each baby or just better with the right sort of help for the first?"

I think bf is a bit like labour: every time/baby is different!

What CAN get better is your confidence and your knowledge about how to overcome difficulties, and that really helps, whatever the situation.

"If you are sucessfully bf why do you care so much about other people who dont or cant?"

Because there are hundreds of thousands of women who have bad experiences with bf and who stop before they wanted to, usually because of bf mismanagement by health professionals and a lack of knowledge and understanding at a community level. That's just wrong, and it's unnecessary.

As for those who can't breastfeed - that they should feel as though everything was done to help them, even if in the end they decide bf is not for them. It's just a matter of taking it seriously and making the expertise available.

And acknowledging - and dealing - with the fact that of the many thousands of women who truly believe they 'can't' breastfeed, the majority probably 'could', had they had the help they needed at the right time.

BF is a normal biological function. If any other normal bodily function like going to the toilet, breathing,walking or swallowing your food, was going wrong for the MAJORITY of people we wouldn't be saying 'don't worry about it, here, use this colostomy bag/oxygen tank/wheelchair/enteral feeding system instead', and not clamouring for increased access to expert medical attention? Particularly when we know that bf interventions are very often effective and cheap?

ruby you are sounding hysterical now. Imagine if someone posted on here that babies are less settled and happy if born by c section,would it piss you off and offend you? Would you post back defending your reasons to have one? I bloody would.

As for "things like engorgement being the end of breast feeding" have you had severe engorgement? Cos i have and it is agony it was considered by my breast surgeon to be the probable cause of having b cancer at 27 with no family history.

Stop being so patronising and dismissive of peoples personal experiences,my sister is a midwife and promotes breast feeding but even she and her colleague admit that SOME WOMEN CANNOT FEED its a fact and it is so pig headed of you to read our stories and continue to dismiss them.

I really hope you are able to develop a more open minded attitude to pass onto your children cos all the breast feeding in the world wont give them that gift.

Oh Bec made me cry too. I don't see why you and me and thousands like us should have to justify our reasons for either BF or FF. My story is not dissimilar to yours, DS born at 28wk, I was in ITU for 1 week p/p as lost pretty much all my blood blah blah I can not be arsed to go on. This is has just turned into a foul bitch fest with some, more than others, marching through this and life without thinking how their ill thought out words could push some sensitive, PND, struggling new mothers over the edge. It's hard enough these days (and far far more so then when I had my older children 18/17/15 yrs ago) to be the so called perfect mother. We all muddle along, some better, some worse and this whole thread appears to have to have right off track from the OP.

AIBU to think that BF are more intelligent?

No they're fucking not. Some are, some are downright thick.
In just the same way as some FF babies are hyper-intelligent and some are also pretty damn stupid.

Environment, willingness to learn, parental input, and a general interest in life are just a tiny tiny part of our intelligence - I only have to look at myself and 4 siblings, as well as my 4 children to see that whatever and wherever we do and are builds different people in different ways.

I think it's so sad to read some of the mothers on here and what they have been through and how they are made to feel utter failures by some of these posts. I just thank fuck that I don't get affected by what people say and think, safe in the knowledge that my children are just fine.

And I can't be arsed to proof this so sorry if there are typos littered.

good for you boo,i have noticed that they only answer certain points and ignore the ones they cannot.Im bored now