To think breast fed babies are more intellegent

[thecatamongthepidgeons]

Because their parents tend to be more intellegent not because they were breast fed?
More intellegent parents are more likely to choose to breast feed regardless of any dificulties they face if they think it will benefit their children.

Spudulika

Thank you for getting back to me.

People do have problems with other normal bodily functions though. Like going to the toilet, also (IBS) is a huge problem so is indigestion. Solutions for these can be readily bought over the counter and are relatively cheap. Maybe this is more complicated than we thought.

boo sorry I made you cry!

Its really interesting what you say re: your older children....my mum (experienced mother of 3) has told me several times she would hate to to a mother now....its such a minefield and so hard.

CSBTF You make a very valid point.

Yeah - how very insensitive of you!!!! It was almost 15 years ago, but it's there...

Your mum is spot on. I am finding EVERYTHING so very different with regards to attitude, so called 'methods' (which I tend to ignore ), guidelines etc etc. It's the press innit and all these super mums, who probably (with the odd exception) don't even know which way up, or even which end, a nappy goes on....It's a very hard job, but the rewards are, well, there ain't no lid for them! I've fucked up along the way I'm sure!! But I look at my almost 18yr old DD1 and the two quickly coming up behind her and I know that a good job has been done and while at times I could gladly strangle them , they will contribute a lot to their world and the worlds of those around them. But they're still messy, expensive little shits!

ledkr i'm sorry i didn't reply to individual posters in the way you would appreciate - i read it all very quickly and had to rush off. but incidentally no one has acknowledged every single point i have made - indeed you chose to call me hysterical after a post which said that 'people keep saying why do the bfers bother about the way a mother feeds her baby, and the reason is because it bothers the mother. mothers want to breastfeed, and they are more often than not, failed by those that are supposed to support them. that is what makes me so angry'. you didn't acknowledge that point at all but there we are.

and interestingly enough i have just been speaking to a lady from ghana who was telling me that the older children or the husband deals with severe engorgement by sucking the milk and spitting it out. or sometimes they even pay an older child to do the job so they can go and buy sweets . she was amazed by the amount of women over here who suffer from mastitis and engorgement when in her country it is no where near as common!? how quality is that!

tbh i'm a bit bored of this too and as foxytocin said i don't even know what i am still doing here given the OPs name. sucked in good and proper. sigh.

ruby you have been insensitive and down right rude in some of yours posts. Like davidtenantsgirl, my PND was in part down to my failure to BF. If I had come across judgemental unpleasant posts like this back then I would have felt even worse.

Yes BF is best. But it doesn not mean I am stupid because I did not BF, and nor does it mean my child is stupid. You really do need to take a step back and reread some of your posts, because you just sound very nasty and cruel.

StayingDavidTennant'sGirl, I agree that I should be more sensitive and watch my language given the people reading this. in future, I will.

AlpinePony you need to watch your language too methinks. bfingNazi is quite distasteful and nobody is advocating starving babies instead of feeding them . and I'm not sure what 'data' you are referring too, sorry - the picture?

TheSecondComing, is it ok for people to tell others to fuck off then? i have been told to fuck off before and it was pretty unreasonable tbh - but then these things often are. and I certainly don't want to force any life choices on anyone. obviously. do you know, if the majority of women said, do you know what - i don't WANT to breastfeed. piss off. don't help me. i want nothing to do with it, then I wouldn't care. but that is not the case. they do care. a lot. which is precisely why people are getting so pissed off on this thread. because they do care. And that is what is unacceptable. mothers should be helped to achieve their breastfeeding goals whatever they may be. but they are not. and that is what is a tragedy. and that is why people like MilaMae saying it doesn't make any difference, matters to me. it matters alot. and I do recognise that feeding is only one part, but it is a big part, and it is tied in with mothering and nurturing so it is important. i am not saying you cannot achieve this with FF, of course not, just that to say it doesn't matter is a bit ridiculous IMO. But then it is just my opinion - what do I know?

and to all those with sad stories of real difficulty, i am sorry if you feel i dismissed them - i didn't intend to - they are interesting and that is the great thing about MN - it never ceases to educate! they are also an illustration of the fact that not everyone can breastfeed. no one is saying otherwise.

Please shout if anyone else feels like I have failed to address a point - I have scrolled back but I am sorry if I have missed people...

NorthernGobshit - nasty and cruel, jeez?!

can you actually quote the nasty and cruel bits please. i am having trouble seeing what you mean!

Was thinking how the new research on BF could actually be of any practical use to women, rather than causing dissent. I guess it's helpful to be able to make the argument about the optimal length of maternity leave? That is, women need to have maternity rights that match up with the advice they're being given. That would be beneficial to all mothers, really.

ruby i do agree about support and the fact that breast milk is best for babies that is why i tried to bf and was sucessful sometimes.What i am trying to get people to understand is that in some cases such as mine-mastectomy,cleft palate etc it simply is not possible and unless you have had personal experience of this you cannot categorically state its not true.I did manage to feed after the engorgement cos i stopped and re started but are you actually suggesting that my husband or other children sucked the milk from my breasts? Im sorry but i do draw the line there and so would they.
Can i also point that as some people who have posted awfull stories may have so much to be dealing with and worrying about that they simply dont have the inclination or energy to go to the lengths it takes to overcome problems when i was in with dd 4 wks ago,i was ill,worried to the point i couldnt stop crying and my dd1 was at home in a state,i sat with her night and day and it was a relief for dh to take over so i could spend some time with dd1 and have a bath.I just think you should show some understanding of this despite how passionate you feel about bf.And tho the third world situation is awfull but lots of other atrocities happen in other countries which are incomparable to the uk,fortunately we dont share the same issues.
Thanks for the debate tho,its nice to have one that doesnt get nasty like so many on here.

ledkr, haha i know - it is not seen as normal in this society to do something like that (the older children and husbands sorting out the engorgement) - maybe it would help if it was seen as normal!?

anyway, i'm absolutely positive you did the best job in the world with the situation you were handed if you like. and yes, the angry post i posted when i first joined this thread showed little understanding for difficult situations, i agree. it wasn't aimed at those people though, although if i say that again i may as well become a stuck record...

Ruby - do you not understand that your attitude is NOT supportive? That may be your intention, but you come across as really insensitive. You have made no acknowledgement whatsoever of the effect that some of your comments on this thread could have on someone like me, suffering PND brought about in part by failure to breastfeed.

You clearly think I am one of the posters who is overexagerating their reaction, but I promise you, I am being entirely honest. I felt devastated by my inability to breastfeed, and my mental state was such that I was considering suicide at that time - hearing or reading comments like yours could well have driven me to that final desperate act.

So whilst I agree that it is very important to support women who want to breastfeed, to promote breastfeeding, and to ensure that all the help and support is available for women who are having problems with breastfeeding, I also think that it is vitally important that this is done with care and sensitivity towards women like me who feel like failures for not managing to breastfeed.

Cross posted with your post from 15:57, Ruby - ds3 came in with his report, so I stopped writing mid-post.

Ruby being a failed bf myself I have to say the maj of us try our best,yes more support is needed but you know what it aint the end of the world. What makes mothers like myself upset and struggle with it not working out by and large is due to the total shite and scaremongering you find on here.

In RL most people have a balanced view re bf, they don't judge,condemn or scare.

This site is one of the most appalling places anywhere for making mothers feel shit about bf,it's truly terrible and completely different to real life. Posters like yourself cause it and you want to cause it.

Yes mothers want more support but thats it end of,they don't want people continually saying how they should feel,bullying or scaremongering. Mothers just want to move on and get on with more important parts of mothering.It aint the end of the world however you try and make it so.If mothers were just left to get on with it like they are in RL a happier place MN would be.

oops obviously missed the nasty bits [blush}

Isn't it time you got of the self righteous podium too, TSC. just sayin'

Also the support should be there for ff too,to support them if they cant carry on for whatever reason and as i pointed out earlier in making the best choices for ff,i couldnt get any advice for which formula,bottles or sterilisers and for making up feeds etc,i had to ask on here and risk the bf wrath.You dont even get points on your boots card for formula, anyone would think it was crack cocaine or fruit shoots

with my fake firm but empty breasts

"there is a world of parents who go about their daily parenting breastfeeding,why are these people never the example of the boobygang.."

you seem to appointed yourself the voice of all the normal breastfeeding mothers out there who happen to not be "the fucking trandem EBF'ers are the one who shout loudest".

with a tirade like that one, it'd be a bad idea to represent anyone.

just sayin' gotta go tidy up and start the washing machine now.

this boobygang thing. Are they akin to the Gangs of NY? What about the Crips and the Bloods or the Sureneños? Did you mean that sort of gang? Despite your protestations to the opposite, the term gang to refer to breastfeeding mothers in a tirade like that one below, is offensive.

it falls in line with Nazi (over-done, tired but still offensive)
Brigade - (which you used in your tirade) as in the Red Brigade?
Mafia - Don Corleone, anyone? or is it more like John Gotti?

what next, lactoterrorismo?

all these terms are offensive to the suffering which these people brought to their victims.

To denigrate some women whom you obviously don't like in order to establish yourself on some sort of happy middle ground is doing you little favour. I speak only for myself, obviously.