To think breast fed babies are more intellegent

[thecatamongthepidgeons]

Because their parents tend to be more intellegent not because they were breast fed?
More intellegent parents are more likely to choose to breast feed regardless of any dificulties they face if they think it will benefit their children.

Tsk, Hully. satire's different and you know it, missy. hobnobs, you must be heeyuuge if you require an extra vowel. A boosom just seems hardcore.

"All of us need to realise that without formula/modern medicine a lot of us would be dead, as would our children. Demonising formula won't save lives"

Sorry - are we equating formula with medicine?

Formula is only a life-saver when breastfeeding isn't possible and donor milk isn't available.

And most women can breastfeed, with the right help.

If you want to put a figure on it - in Norway, where
bf is strongly supported and encouraged 98% of new mums leave hospital breastfeeding and the vast majority are still bf by four months. In Hungary over 60% of four month old babies are exclusively breastfed. And these figures come from cultures where women work, where formula is affordable and available, and where bottlefeeding used to be the norm. (bf rates in Norway were as low in the 1970's as they were in the UK).

The idea that formula is a huge life-saver in developing countries is just nonsense.

And encouraging and helping poor women to exclusively breastfeed in developing countries WILL and DOES save huge numbers of lives, which is why UNICEF and the WHO strongly encourage it.

i think it depends

how's that for incisive

what happens when the same parents breastfeed one baby but not another?

here

Might bring home to some of you how the breastfeeding experiences of mothers in the UK are in no way typical of breastfeeding around the world. And how formula use is vastly more widespread here among breastfeeding mums, than it is in most other countries.

Should add, scroll down the page for tables showing exclusive breastfeeding rates at 3, 4 and 6 months.

Spudulika - yes, I'm equating formula with medicine. :) I'm not really in to the whole starving babies shtick which I know you celebrate.

Question is it better for a third world mother with AIDS to breast feed of formula feed?

AlpinePony calm down. Why are you calling me a Nazi? Does it make you feel better?

And yes, Spudulika 'celebrates starving babies'.

Stop being so melodramatic.

........Autumn for Poland and France.........

LOL Hully

He has got something to say to you on the subject.

This is a genuine question, not an attempt to further this argument: why do you have to starve babies who struggle to latch? My DD really struggled for the first five days or so, so I just put her to the breast and let her take what she could/whatever was there, and topped her up with (gasp!) formula. Once she got the hang of BFing she didn't need formula, and has been EBF for 4 months since then, except last Friday when I experimented with a bottle of formula to get a bit of a break.

AlpinePony - just to clarify, are you calling me a Nazi?

Why exactly?

What did I say in my post on page 20 that causes you to call me a Nazi?

"Question is it better for a third world mother with AIDS to breast feed of formula feed?"

Lowest risk of all is ff - but ONLY if it's exclusive and the mother has a guaranteed supply and clean water/fuel to make it with.

Obviously this isn't the case for many poverty stricken families in developing countries.

In which case they now advise 6 months exclusive breastfeeding, then switching to solids/formula.

"why do you have to starve babies who struggle to latch?"

Well - you don't have to!

You can be helped to express and to top a baby up with expressed breastmilk until the baby learns to latch on. (though not all women find expressing easy)

Or as you've done, you can top up with formula until breastfeeding is going better. (though for some women this causes problems with supply and leads to an early cessation of breastfeeding).

AlpinePony - I'm really into bonny, chubby babies too, which is why I liked breastfeeding, as breastfed babies tend to put on MORE WEIGHT and put it on FASTER in the first six months of life than ff babies.

Of course there may be difficulties in the first few weeks that might lead to a bf baby not getting as much milk as it needs. But formula doesn't usually need to be the answer to that problem.

Because some people think it is very important to JUST have brestmilt Olivetti - the virgin gut theory.
I went to a bf clinic once with issues. I bought formula on the way home. Not help is created equal and sometimes some 'help' can make you understand that you know your own mind and child and family and can make a decision based on that.

Alpinepony your post at Tue 15-Mar-11 10:19:51 makes you look unhinged. It sounds like you have major issues with your infant feeding experiences and are beating up on other people for it.

Olivetti no one who is a trained breastfeeding supporter would advocate starving a baby back onto the breast. That concept is strange, nonsensical and dangerous.

this blogpost may be useful reading on how and why breastfed babies become dehydrated.

and what every HCP coming into contact with mothers and new borns ought to know.

"I'm equating formula with medicine"

Formula isn't usually the 'cure' for difficult breastfeeding.

Using it tends to lead to more problems, not fewer.

The answer to breastfeeding that's not working is usually - get help with the breastfeeding. And if it's done right you usually get a positive result.

Of course, if a mum doesn't want to give her baby her own milk then her only option is formula.

Spudulika - it's not always a case of not wanting to give your baby your own milk. I had a really difficult time to start with - she just wasn't getting enough from me and took a while learning how to latch on. I couldn't express, and was physically and emotionally exhaused after a 36 hour labour and 2 hours sleep in 76 hours. So I put her to the breast for as long as she could manage, the gave her one of those ready made little bottles, again, as much as she wanted. Eventually with practise she learned to latch, and, as I say, has been EBF from 1-17 weeks, and I intend to continue. I just know that if I had struggled on trying to EBF in those very early days, I would have cracked and given up completely. So maybe I am an example of formula SAVING breastfeeding!

Spudulika you say

'You can be helped to express and to top a baby up with expressed breastmilk until the baby learns to latch on. (though not all women find expressing easy)

Or as you've done, you can top up with formula until breastfeeding is going better.'

But you also say

Using it tends to lead to more problems, not fewer.'

If not all woman find expressing easy does that mean they might not find breasfeeding easy? Do you think it gets better with each baby or just better with the right sort of help for the first?

I would have loved more help with my first!

Habbibu my bosom has a social life of it's own it's so huge!

hobnobsaremyfave

I would streak across this thread if only mine were ample!

If you are sucessfully bf why do you care so much about other people who dont or cant?

Yes cant,this thread seems to be ignoring that fact.

ledkr - because there is a disproportionate number of women in this country who 'can't' breastfeed - it is much higher than other countries, including other developed countries.

That suggests that many of them probably can breastfeed, but they're not getting the right support and help to carry on.

Breastfeeding can be very difficult to get established - there's no denying that. I struggled very much with DC1. But once it's established it's so easy, which is why it's really important that there's the enough of the right support out there for those who want it.