To want/expect a holiday, even though we have been a bit skint?

[carmenelectra]

Basically I am really, really pissed off a DP today.

I discussed booking this years family holiday with him yesterday and completely put me off.

We go abroad every year and it is the one thing i really, really enjoy. I very rarely go out or have weekends away anymore, so its the big thing I look forward to. I am willing to sacrifice everything for a wk in the sun.

Now the last couple of years we(I) have overcommitted ourselves finacially and last year things were at times very tough. My Dp put off all of my holidays plans and asked me to wait 'to see how it goes'.

Well, it went nowhere. I usually book up quite early and take advanatge of cheaper flights and longer to pay the holiday off, get spending money clothes etc. As I waited to see how money panned out, we didn't get a holiday at all. I was furious at first, but as I understood most of our outgoings were due to my overspending I accepted it.

Roll on to this year. DP is basically saying he doesnt think we have the spare cash upfront which is true. However, I suggested booking the holiday giving ourselves the incentive and then wotking at paying it of. I have a well paid job and gets lots of regular overtime with very good pay. Dp is the same.

Now he is saying that to go away in the summer we would have to put 'X' away each month and he doesnt think it's feasible.

I thought it was all quite 'doable', but now he has put a huge spanner in the works and put a real dampener on the whole thing.

I think deep down he isnt that bothered about a holiday, he can take it or leave it, hence the lack of enthusiasum.

Now I know some people are going to say that we shouldnt be having luxuries like hols if we have been short of cash, but I disagree. I am talking about a hol in Europe, no biggy.

So am i being unreasonable when I work all hours god sends, to expect a bloody weeks holiday?

I don't understand the issue.

Compromise. Save the money first and if, as you believe, you can afford to go, then by the time your holiday comes around you will have the money for a last-minute break - which may well come in cheaper than if you booked something now. It might not be exactly what you want, but you will be able to demonstrate you can afford it.

If you can't get the money saved in time then dp was right and YABU.

Personally, I work. Have two children. Mortgage is under £5,000 (not a typo) and it is very unlikely that I will be going abroad with the kids this year. (Adding that as, for some reason, the op seems to think it is relevant).

Morloth, not exactly sure what you are trying to pick me up on re: mortgage. i must admit that I AM abit thick with mortgages and not explaining myself well.

Had mortgage of 35k, have an endownment which will cover it. Does that make it clear.

Not sure why anyone would think that I am making this up. Something as dull as a mortgage??

Obviously we have other bills and committments which is why we dont ahve loads of spare cash on our salaries. 2 x nursery fees for example.

Of course the (not huge- i will say it again)consolidation.

Our food bill is big. Travel costs to work.

I asked if I was being unreasonable about a holiday, where did i ask for fiancial advice or for anyone to scrutinise my outgoings.

morloth what is the 500X 48 sum you are referring to. I said out mortgage was over 20 YEARS, not months, if thta's what you mean?

I think you need to agree your financial position with your dp and what your joint priorities are - if you can't do that then your problems are way bigger than not being able to go on holiday imo.

Holding your dp to a "promise" that you could go on holiday doesn't seem a very grown up approach so i am not sure if that is what you really meant?

In short YABU as being prepared to "work all the hours god sends" absolutely doesn't entitle you to a holiday abroad and it is odd to think that it does. Being able to pay for it and agreeing to spend the money in this way with your dh is how it should work, surely?

My DP would not stop me booking a holiday and I guess he wants to go he doesn't see it a priority. He wants the money 'upfront'. To be honest with all of our previous holidays we have not paid in cash in full when booking, or very rarely. We have always booked, paid deposit and paid it off that way. So its not unusual that he is saying what he is.he always complains

I think this time because of us being a bit short from Maternity leave he is less keen than usual.

He is not saying no way, or he will leave me or that I am a rotten partner, just lets leave it for a bit. We did this last year though and it made not one jot of difference to our bank balance. We neither had more or less money. So my point is, what is the point in 'waiting'?!

I am not trying to 'pick you up' I don't care whether you go on a holiday or not. You asked if you were being unreasonable and put the numbers out there yourself.

I got the £500x48 from you saying the mortgage is half of what your friend pays at £1000 a month, coupled with you saying it would be paid off by 2014 (so 4 years or 48 months) and then your mortgage being £35,000. If you are only paying £500 a month how would you have cleared 35k by then whether the mortgage is over 20 years or not?

Your DH is being sensible, whether the debt was obtained necessarily or not it is still there.

The point in waiting is that by not having a holiday last year you did not go backwards given that your financial situation has not improved 'neither more or less money' then if you spend unnecessary money (and a holiday, whilst you really want it, isn't a need) you will go backwards this year and unless something drastic happens to your increase your income you will end up even more behind because of the interest on the debt that didn't get reduced because of the holiday.

You are being unreasonable to spend money you haven't got given the situation at the moment.

morloth our mortgage is not half of my friends(£1000), it is less than that. I was giving and example. I did not really plan on giving exact figures on what I do or do not pay out. However, as people keep pointing out that 'my figures dont add up', I tried t clairify.

We ahve an endowmnemt.

Let me also make it clear. Even if we do not go on holiday, we will not be paying any extra money off any debts.

We are comfortable with our repayments and can mange them. Sticking a few extra quid on each month won't make a fat lot of good and will leave us with less spare.

Even my sensible DP has no plans on doing this.

WE pay what we pay. I know some people take out car loan for example over say 3 years, but increase their monthly payment so its paid in 2 yrs. We never do that. Unless we had lots of spare cash. We stick to the agreement and pay the monthly payment, nothing more nothing less. Are we breaking some rules or something for just sticking what we have to pay and then spending what we have left.

There is always something else we need each month.

Not sure why people get cross or all judgmental when everone doesn't do things their(sensible) way?

endownment

Not cross or judgemental, (as I said I don't actually care whether you go on holiday or end up with a bigger debt or not) but you did ask.

Are you paying interest on the debts? If you are paying interest then by not paying them down asap (i.e. not putting the little extra on) then they will go on for longer so you will pay more interest.

I like spending money, love good quality and enjoy nice holidays. What I don't like is wasting money and just giving it away which is what interest is. It is a necessary evil in order to own a home, but it is just money gone and I hate giving away money for no reason.

Was not trying to trip you up Carmen but it still doesn't make sense.

Now you say you are paying less then 500 a month on your morgage and that you owe 35k still and it will be cleared by 2014. so 3 or 4 years.

So even if you were paying 500 a month, so 500 x 12 (months) is 6000. Then you say you are paying less then that so the sum would be less then 6000 a year on your morgage.

Then you say it is going to be payed off by 2014, so lets say 4 years. 6000 x 4 = 24000. And you wouldn't have paid 24000 if your payments are less then 500 per month.

Not trying to confuse you or trip you up by going on the numbers you have said and the fact you have said you aren't paying over what you have to pay, your morgage would not be paid off by 2014.

I am not a morgage expert either but going on what you have told us, it doesn't add up. Most morgages run for 25 years, maybe less if your paying more a month then you have to but your not doing that. I know morgages were easier to get 20 odd years again but i think you are very lucky to have gotten a morgage when you were a teenager

Morloth I dont consider a holiday as wasting money. A family holiday for everyone.

We will most likely have a shit summer where we can barely do anything outdoors with the children. I will have time off work and I cannt guarantee that wwe can go out and about in the day. A week in the sun abroad I can guarantee nice weather and lots of fun for all.

We do go camping which we love., though its not much fun in the pouring rain with a baby. So i am being realistic.

All the posters who talk of cottages etc, do they live in a different country.

I won't shell out hundreds of pounds on my one or two wks off to traipse around in the rain. Raincovers on the pushchairs, coats on. Jesus, I do all year!!

*Oh and those of you who think that i should pay off my consolidation first, can I ask something? Hve none of you got a mortgage, car loan and finance?

Are you seriously suggesting that I should pay off everything(AS SOME KIND OF PUNISHMENT? for ever getting into debt) before I do anything again?*

I'm the same age as you, and have 2 children. The only debt we have is a relatively small, very manageable mortgage. I love my holidays in the sun, positively thrive in the heat, but won't be having one this year because WE CAN'T AFFORD IT, yes we could go into debt for it, but that's not how we operate,and that's why we have no debt other than the mortgage.

We had a few VERY skint years when we bought our house, but we knew that it'd be like that and we got on with it and other than the odd weekend away, did without a holiday for a few years.
Things got a bit better, so we have had a few years of great foreign holidays.
This year, things are a bit tighter, so we'll do something in the UK (which to me is no more a holiday than fly in the air, but it's what we can AFFORD)

Paying of debt isn't a punishment, it's common sense. Maybe you'd not feel the need for your holiday as much if you weren't subconsciously worried about HAVING to work long and hard to service that debt?

I fully understand why you would prioritise a holiday in the sun - but you need to persuade your dh of this and not to persuade mumsnetters - some of whom I think would be much harder work to persuade than your dh!

Good luck, I hope you can mange to go!

thanks fatty(lol)

She sparkles, I don't work long and hard to pay off my debt. My hours are long and hard. It is just a stressful job. It is hard if I work one day.

But the extra interest you pay is wasted because you want a holiday now. If you wait until the debt is cleared then the holiday will be cheaper because it won't be adding to a debt.

Do you really not see what I am saying there?

I get that the weather is miserable and you really want a holiday, but I really want a lot of things, many of which I could easily get loans to finance, but I don't because my number one priority is being solvent and having back up cash so that I don't ever have to worry how to house/clothes and feed the kids.

You can go under you know, it is possible, if you keep spending money you don't have then you will eventually.

carmen, you are so focused on winning your argument that you are entitled to your holiday in the sun that you make it sound as if if you don't have this holiday on sensible grounds, you might not have a holiday for 6 years.

That is a misconception. You have PLENTY of holidays which only came out later in the thread. You holiday in the country, you do camping holidays. You just don't consider them your main holiday. I can sympathise with someone who has no holidays at all, but not someone who expects a holiday abroad in the sun on top of her other holidays, when she has non-mortgage interest bearing debt to pay off.

Also, you mentioned that you fritter away your overtime payments.

That is the profile of someone who is profligate with her money, not someone sensible who is just saving for one holiday a year, which you were at pains to give us the impression in your OP.

I totally see where your dh is coming from. You are in denial. Your attitude to money would make me very worried about ever paying off that loan. You cannot even begin to think about rainy day savings until you have paid off your loan and you have failed to do that even in your 40s with 2 high earning jobs.

Morloth our holiday would cost say 2k. Even if we pay it off the 'debts' instead it won't clear them.

I have repeated this. So what is being suggested here? Dont have a hol til its all paid? If so, no way. Just this year? So I owe a bit less.

Isnt it a bit overdramatic to say that we could 'go under' for having a 2 grand hol. When all our bills are paid on time, no arrears and our salarycovers it? Our should we not have a holiday just in case we lose our jobs in the next year.

How long are we meant to keep this up for? Till we owe not one pennY, including mortgage??

I said i had oversepnt and been a bit skint, not bankrupt

Icing we have a mortage that we took out in the 1990's(i was in my 20's). My (limited) understanding is we repay the interest and the endownment covers the loan. There is no shortfall. The mortgage was for 35k. Is that clearer? Mortgage repayments finish 2014

Didnt say that i still owed 35 k still. That was the original loan nearly 20 yrs ago.

blueshoes i dont exactly friter my overtime. Maybe extra food shopping, things I could do with for the children, things we need for the house. I don't go off and do lunch.lol

I havent always had such a high paid job. I was at uni for years with my partner being main earner. Maternity leave x3 also.

I gave up a good job in my 30's to go back into fulltime education. So I am not some frivolous woman aged 40(only just- not in my 40's)who has wasted all her cash for years.

Name changer here -
Have been in serious debt in the past - never again.

I think the point you are missing OP is this -you say even if you dont go on holiday you wont pay off any of this debt.
This because to go on holiday you will add to your debt ??? This is my understanding of the situation-if I am wrong please clarify.
Do you have at least 3-6 months cash stashed for rainy day? etc.I wouldnt even consider going on holiday .
I wont be going on holiday this year because I cant afford it .

It would be 2k less you had to pay interest on.

Based solely on what you have posted your DP is not being unreasonable.

You sound dead set on having your way over this, one 2k holiday won't send you under, but are you going to need another next year? And the year after?

I really am confused what you want people to say? That your DP is being silly and you should have a holiday regardless of whether he thinks you can afford it or not? He isn't being silly IMO, you are.

Carmen: " Even if we pay it off the 'debts' instead it won't clear them."

So how do think big debts are paid off? In one lump sum?? Of course it is by chipping away at it. £2,000 is not a small sum. It is far easier to add on to that than pay it off, and at the rate you are going, it will still be there on your retirement.

Carmen: "I have repeated this. So what is being suggested here? Dont have a hol til its all paid? If so, no way. Just this year? So I owe a bit less"

You HAVE had holidays, just not abroad and in the sun. Stop saying that you don't have holidays. It is just not the holiday you consider to be your main holiday that you feel you are entitled to. Stop all your other holidays and add up the savings for just that ONE (truly) holiday a year. Your dh might be much more willing to go along with that.

thebestofyou,

no I won't be adding to my debt if I go away. A holiday will be paid for with what we earn only. No credit.

We dont have savings but i propose to book the holiday, pay a moderate deposit(have enough to do that) and then pay monthly to clear and get spending money.

If we dont on on holiday I wont be physically saving any money. Will prob do the same overtime, but it will end up going on other non-specific things that i have nothing to show for. May buy extra bit for the house that we could do with. Probably spend extra on birthdays, occasional days or meals out. Not so careful with food shoppin, extra treats.

I speak to lots of people that i work with and many say the same- money can just 'go' without intentionally buying a specific item

carmen: "If we dont on on holiday I wont be physically saving any money."

Of course you won't be saving it. You cannot save whilst you have outstanding debts. Why aren't you using the amount you would have spent on the holiday towards paying down the loan instead? That would be the obvious home for the cash, not fripperies you mentioned.

You are demonstrating a serious fiscal lack of discipline.

You have not even put aside a sum for the holiday in advance. You are just putting the holiday on more credit and paying it out of your disposable income, income that should be used to pay down the loan. No wonder your dh is worried.