To be "confused" about people's relationships on MN?

[AnnyR]

I have only been reading these forums for a few weeks and am increasingly confused/worried about many people's reactions relationships.

There seems to be a stock answer of "kick him out" or "leave him" when someone is having a bad time with their DH or DP. Is this why we have such a high divorce rate at the moment?

I wonder because I think that no-one is perfect and there is no such thing as a perfect relationship. Having been married for nearly 25 years I know that it is hard to stick it out sometimes. Both of us have done things to hurt and upset the other over the years, but we stick together for loads of reasons. Mainly because we ultimately love each other. And because we have DC who need both of us.

Obviously, cases of domestic violence are different - I don't think you should always stay together no matter what. Also, I am not religious and didn't make vows in church, so I am not coming from that angle either.

But why are so many Mumsnetters so quick to advise people to leave?

I am genuinely confused and sad :(

HerBex,

If you read a consistent set of comments by a poster saying "leave the twat" when all the "twats" are men and all the situations are different, it is fair to extrapolate that the poster is not kindly disposed to ALL men. Of course, extrapolation is making an inference about data which does not exist, and it could be incorrect, and there are confounding factors (such as it being on a relationship board). However, that is what every poster does on these boards when they offer any kind of advice.

Plenty of divorcees are bitter, trust me on that, especially of the older generation, where the woman feels that she gave a chunk of her life to a system which deceived her (and, to that extent, they have a point). Both my mother and mother in law would number amongst them.

Swallowed,

What is up with your textual analysis?

I said that there were plenty of bitter divorcees. I never generalised to say that ALL divorcees were bitter. I know some very kind (maybe too kind) divorcees as well.
Equally, I never generalised to ALL the "leave the twat crew", merely some of them.

Swallowed,

They are bitter because, especially in the case of the older generation, they feel that they have given some of the best years of their life to supporting a husband who has given little back in return and now they are facing an uncertain future with little training for formal work.

The idea of marriage now and in the 60s and 70s, when a lot were married, is radically different. The norm was to sacrifice career for family and husband and the quid pro quo was that the husband would provide financially. When that edifice collapses it tends not to favour the woman, especially if the children are already grown up. Again, that is changing, but I can see why certain women would be bitter about it.

Ahh...the first step in ostracising.

"If you don't like my attitude why are you here ?"

How dare you question anyone larry, off to the tower with you !

ps. Leave the twat

Swallowed,

There clearly IS something up with your textual analysis. How on earth do you infer that I have a problem with women because I argue that a certain small subset of them (and a certain small subset of men) seem inclined to want to split couples up. There are plenty of women who agree with me on this board, including the OP.

I've often thought about this, not just in relation to MN, but if you look around at your friends' relationships, do you think, "Wow, they've got it good", or do you think "I could never put up with that kind of behaviour, I'd be out of there!" I think it is very much easier to give advice to others where there is no emotional involvement than to be successful/happy in your own relationships and know when to call time on a failure, for example.
I have recently been posting quite a lot about the trials of living with an alcoholic and there are those that would have you believe nothing can change, you have to get out, etc. I know this is not true as I have also fortunately spoken to many in RL and on MN for whom things have changed.
I do agree it's too much of a stock answer, although of course there are examples of hopeless relationships going on far too long and causing more damage than good.

You haven't acknowledged that the reason people tell other people to split up, is because they are in really horrible relationships and it has become obvious, sometimes over a number of threads, that the OP is the only one working on that relationship. People are not told to leave the twat already, for trivial reasons and nobody who claims that they are, has been able to point to even one thread to back up that claim.

Now I acknowldge that we only have the OP's word for thinking that she's the only one who appears to be displaying an interest in preserving the relationship, but really on a discussion board, that's all we've got to go on.

Sorry half that was to Larry not you

halfcaffodils tbh I look at half my friends' relationships and think they have loving, caring relationships and I look at the other half and think OMG I pity you, you poor woman/ man.

But I wouldn't say so because I'm not asked and it's not my place to comment on my friends' relationships unless they directly ask me for my opinion and genuinely want the truth and even then I might be quite circumspect and indirect about what I said because if someone wants to try and save the relationship, you want to support them to do that and not be the friend 5 years down the line, who advised that it was all shit and there was no hope.

Whereas on MN, the reason people post here is because they do genuinely want the truth, they suspect they won't hear it from their friends (and they're probably right) and they know that they'll get a wide range of opinions. Which they can then weigh up and take into account when deciding which way to go.

I think its dangerous and foolish to tell other people what to do with their relationships, especially to say "Leave".. People who do suggest that here are stupid.
You cant possibly know what would be right for that person. Even if you are the persons very best friend and know them well.

A Councillor would never suggest you leave or stay, they would let you come to decisions/thoughts by talking thing through.

On mumsnet you can only advice different ideas like talking, councilling, different ways of behaviour.

I'm in my forties and I think it's getting to the stage where probably about half my friends are divorced/separated!

I think posters tend to give advice based on their own experiences.

So if they had a shit relationship with their father they tend to express that viewpoint in their posts. So the they give advice as if it was their father and their situation. And obviously all relationships aren't the same as theirs was. So it can sound like they are repeating themselves.

skif , it can be equally as "dangerous, foolish or stupid" to advise some people to stay

have you seen the current thread in relationships where because the woman refuses to sleep with her abusive husband he wanked all over her knickers and left them for her (or her kids) to find ?

I think you will find in those scenarios, the OP is advised to leave. However, even there there is someone saying she should just shag her husband and he is the one who is losing out

I call that stupid, and believe me, the OP will get that kind of "stupid" advice from people in RL who believe in "good oldfashioned marriages" and that we should ignore all that new-fangled "abuse stuff" as being the neurotic outpourings of embittered women

personally, I don't even post on the "minor misdemeanours" type threads, unless it becomes clear that the subject of the OP is actually part of a bigger pattern of control and fucked-up attitudes

youll , people repeat themselves on relationships threads, because abusers themselves follow a very well-worn script

and to be frank, if you have read enough of them, and you can't see a pattern yourself without having necessarily experienced it, then you have a problem with processing information and/or are missing the empathy gene

I am very very dubious about this idea that people just give advice based on their own experience and upbringing.

That is a bit patronising and assumes that this is full of people like Netmums - Mumsnet is full of people who are really educated and well-read and actually know quite a bit about what they're talking about - they don't just take their own experience and imagine it is valid for everyoen else, this is one of the few spaces on the internet where people are constantly reminding themselves and each other, that just because this is your/ my / her experience, doesn't mean we can assume that it is a universal experiecne. OK you get some people who post that this is what life is because that is their experience of life, but I think in the main on the more thoughtful threads, people are really well aware that their life experience isn't necesarily representative of someone else's and they acknowldge that and are carefull not to project.

Skifit - you appear to be working on the principle that anyone asking for advice on here will automatically take it - this isn't the case. OTOH, if a poster posts about their utterly shit relationship and EVERYONE says they'd be better off out of it, they might take some notice. They still might not, though.

You appear to believe that we should all just go "hey, it's your relationship, do what you feel is right" - well if they knew what to do they wouldn't be asking for advice, would they?

And counsellors do sometimes tell people to split - I have a friend who went for marriage guidance counselling with Relate and that's exactly what he and his partner were told.

Yes, I think Kick him out is a convenient answer from someone who is not really interested. AnnyR

You do at least need to know more about the relationship, children etc.

This is of course an era when many relationships are short lived. (But I suppose most people are looking for something permanent by 35.

things have changed since I was young. "Gabby"

yes, gabby I am sure things have changed since you were a wee lad

women have wigged they don't need to accept sub-standard relationships for a start

society has a way to catch up though, in general, as many people in shitty situations stay too long because of the expectations upon them which still focus far too much on how much she is doing to save it

wigged ?

twigged, obvs

Look. While I have never posted 'leave the twat', I may well have posted or thought that the op's partner's behaviour was bad enough that they would be better off out of it, or that it needed to change. That's not based on the gender of the op, just on the information they give. And as the majority of people that post on mumsnet are women, I guess they're the ones more likely to hear that. But I'm quite happy to tell men that their partner's behaviour is crappy too, if it is.

'Leave the twat' tends to come up on threads where the poster is being abused, but also when they're simply not being listened to when they try and change things for the better, or describing a relationship where no one is happy. Maybe sometimes it isn't the best solution, but then I'm sure there's always plenty of posters advising to stay. Really, what's the problem?