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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be "confused" about people's relationships on MN?

312 replies

AnnyR · 05/03/2011 16:34

I have only been reading these forums for a few weeks and am increasingly confused/worried about many people's reactions relationships.

There seems to be a stock answer of "kick him out" or "leave him" when someone is having a bad time with their DH or DP. Is this why we have such a high divorce rate at the moment?

I wonder because I think that no-one is perfect and there is no such thing as a perfect relationship. Having been married for nearly 25 years I know that it is hard to stick it out sometimes. Both of us have done things to hurt and upset the other over the years, but we stick together for loads of reasons. Mainly because we ultimately love each other. And because we have DC who need both of us.

Obviously, cases of domestic violence are different - I don't think you should always stay together no matter what. Also, I am not religious and didn't make vows in church, so I am not coming from that angle either.

But why are so many Mumsnetters so quick to advise people to leave?

I am genuinely confused and sad :(

OP posts:
HerBeX · 09/03/2011 10:27

Can you tell me more about the Ideal Man I believe in Larry? Grin

Would love to know what his characteristics are?

larrygrylls · 09/03/2011 10:27

HerB,

You don't take anyone seriously who has a different take on things than you. I an honoured to be a member of that club. :)

HerBeX · 09/03/2011 10:28

And honestly, I really thought I'd answered your question in good faith.

When there is no possibility of change.

Was that really not clear?

You really are unable to read my posts aren't you?

LadyOfTheManor · 09/03/2011 10:29

Yes, I'm shocked at the amount of "Leave him" responses I've read.

I just tie them to single parents who have left for similar reasons, and therefore think that's the answer to solve all problems.

HerBeX · 09/03/2011 10:30

Then you haven't read the thread have you Lady

Hmm
larrygrylls · 09/03/2011 10:36

HerB,

To bring the word "whim" into your reply is a great example of the fallacy of "false dichotomy": arbitrarily reducing a set of many possibilities to only two. To pretend that a marriage can only split up either on a whim or for genuinely irreconcilable differences when the reality on most relationship threads is somewhere in between is to trivialise my question. But, you are actually very bright and know this. You just choose to ignore it.

HerBeX · 09/03/2011 10:40

you were the one who mentioned first hurdles and weddings being about big parties and dresses.

So it was you who introduced the idea of frivolity Larry.

HerBeX · 09/03/2011 10:41

Sorry you didn't say first hurdle, you said this:

"Divorce should be the last option, not the first one"

HerBeX · 09/03/2011 10:43

which fits your

"great example of the fallacy of "false dichotomy": arbitrarily reducing a set of many possibilities to only two..."

Honestly what are you on?

LadyOfTheManor · 09/03/2011 10:43

I've read some of this thread, but spend time reading "relationship" threads.

That's just what I got from it.

HerBeX · 09/03/2011 10:46

So what about when happily married women advise someone to leave Lady?

How does that fit in with your impression?

larrygrylls · 09/03/2011 10:48

HerB,

My point about "big parties and dresses" was a legitimate (and I thought humorous, but then I like my own humour :) reductio ad absurdum argument. The false dichotomy, though, kills discussion as I can then either argue that I believe that people split up on a whim (I don't) or accept that people try hard enough to remain in a marriage, a stance I also disagree with.

BertieBotts · 09/03/2011 10:54

I said on the other thread that I get fed up seeing these kinds of threads so often - but actually having thought about it I'm quite glad, it's better discussing it abstractly than discussing it on a thread where a vulnerable poster has asked for help.

Larry I did suggest the poster on the thread you mentioned think about leaving, because firstly she had mentioned that she had thought about separation herself, and secondly because I misread part of the OP and thought she said that he had been violent. Once this was clarified I took it back.

Often posts about leaving aren't intended to make the poster change their mind straight away. It's just opening their eyes to another option, which often isn't considered or is too scary. But if someone would genuinely be happier alone, then probably the other partner isn't much happier either.

I think it's really sad that someone said earlier that respect isn't that important in a relationship. I really, strongly believe it's the most important thing. Even at the lowest of the low points with someone you should offer them a basic human respect.

HerBeX · 09/03/2011 10:57

Oh I see, when you do it it's a reducto ad absurdum, when I do it, it's a false dichotomy or whatever it was.

Actually I don't think it is right to say that the big dresses thing is automatically to be taken as humorous - there are plenty of people out there who do believe that people do leave relationships just at the first little thing adn that they do only get married for the big dress. (And tbf, there probably are a minority who do that)

Your supposition is just that - a supposition. That people don't work hard enough on their relationships. It's one of those things people say but when you ask them who, they can never actually produce any couples who split up without working hard enough.

And also, I would say that you never know what goes on in other people's relationships. You don't know whether they've worked hard, what they'd tried to do to keepp the show on the road, because they're not going to tell you. I just think the safest thing is to presume that other people have integrity and common sense and if I can't understand why they've ended a relationship, it might just be because they don't want me to be privy to all the details.

LadyOfTheManor · 09/03/2011 10:57

Herbex, from what I gather from the majority of threads, that isn't the case.

EIther which way, I'm with the OP, everyone seems to be very "single parent happy". My advise is always to work at it (domestic violence on both sides excused, obviously).

larrygrylls · 09/03/2011 11:05

Bertie,

I agree with you that it is better to discuss these things in the abstract.

As regards that other thread, you were not the only one who suggested leaving and not everyone misread the OP. It was about a lazy guy and a poor sleep deprived woman with a new baby. But a new baby is an adjustment process and thinking about leaving someone after a night of one hours sleep and with a baby screaming is possibly a decision to be at least discouraged in the short term, not subtly encouraged.

Does anyone really not consider leaving in 2011? We all must know a fair few divorced and separated people.

I totally agree with your last paragraph. Everyone deserves basic human respect.

larrygrylls · 09/03/2011 11:17

HerB,

Fair last post. I actually agree with most of it, although I do know a guy who dumped his wife of a few years by listing 5 things he did not like about her and then leaving. So, it does happen and I do know an example of it.

I just feel that, as someone pointed out above, it is better to help people move to their own conclusions about their relationship by asking various questions or giving them things to consider rather than advising that someone should "dump the twat". And I also believe (despite the fact that it was definitely not true in my parents' case) that staying together is generally better for children and should be taken as the starting point for a discussion.

lemonmuffin · 09/03/2011 11:27

Lady of the manor, you're absolutely right, certain posters do have an agenda and you're not going to get anywhere trying to argue with them unfortunately.

All you can do is try and add some kind of balance to the threads where you think it's happening.

GabbyLoggon · 09/03/2011 11:43

Do partners feel different to marrieds on trying to make it work?

With the latter you do make promises in public.

Do those promises need to be changed to fit in with modern break-up statistics?

I only know questions. Answers are a different kettle of fish.

halfcaffodils · 09/03/2011 14:10

I changed our informal marriage 'vows' to: 'As long as life allows'- another way of saying 'until it becomes unbearable'. Clever, eh?

swallowedAfly · 10/03/2011 08:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

givemesomespace · 10/03/2011 08:53

Spot on lemonmuffin

MooMooFarm · 10/03/2011 09:26

halfcaffodils you're not serious are you?

slim22 · 10/03/2011 09:50

As long as life allows is a very good philosophy in marriage. i understand it as not taking each other for granted.
imho marriage is a looooong voyage, not the destination

halfcaffodils · 10/03/2011 12:48

I am perfectly serious MooMoo! We did the conventional legal stuff in the register office but made our own little ceremony at our wedding lunch where we were able to have a lot more people as 'witnesses', and got them to join in and say they would support us in times of trouble.
I recognised that there were things which happen in marriages, other than death, which I would not be able to tolerate, such as...well all the normal things that people divorce over! I have recently been pushed to the limit over my dh's alcoholism but with support from some of the people there that day, and others I have met since, we are still together after 14 years and hope we have turned a corner.