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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think our society/culture does not support bf...

96 replies

Kippersontoast · 01/03/2011 10:38

...and this is the main reason for a lot of women being unable to do it?

In my nct class we were told that you were only unable to breast feed if your breasts were damaged or you have an underlying medical condition. I am astonished at the amount of women on this and other forums who say that they didn't produce enough milk to feed their babies. Do all these women have damaged breasts or medical problems?

Anyway, it got me thinking after visiting my Hindi neighbour who had a baby two weeks ago and is overrun with support from her huge family. She stays in bed all day feeding and sleeping, is brought food and has nothing to worry about except establishing bf.

This simply doesn't happen in the western culture. Most of my friends had very little or no support from their family and were expected to just get on with it as well as looking after their other dc's, cleaning, laundry cooking etc. Needless to say, bf fell by the wayside because they couldn't just loll in bed all day.

I know some women really struggle with bf and I'm sure that if the conditions were right eg more support to enable them to do nothing but bf, a lot more women would be able to do it.

Aibu or is it just the way things are when families don't rally round?

OP posts:

Piggyleroux · 01/03/2011 10:42

[shocked]

jaffacake79 · 01/03/2011 10:43

I think you're right to a degree. There is a distinct lack of familial and community support in our lives now. People would rather come to coo at the baby than come and help by sticking a wash on, loading the dishwasher, bringing a meal or tidying up. But then, we're also a lot more independent now than in years gone by and probably wouldn't like to ask people for that kind of help?

Women can choose not to bf for their own reasons not just physically finding it hard. But, there is also a lot of pressure on people to do it and when they find it hard going in the first weeks will stop because they think they're unable to, but if they persevered and accepted that it's sometimes hard they might get on better.

They also need the time to take care of themselves - making sure they eat well and drink plenty. One of my friends wondered why her milk supply was down and then we figured out she'd not been drinking very much herself.

I think communities as a whole would be a much nicer place to raise children if people worked together more.

TheseThingsAreGoodThings · 01/03/2011 10:45

I just didn't want to.

I suspect a lot of otehrs feel this way but feel they need to hide behind the pretence of a medical condition to avoid judgey people

faverolles · 01/03/2011 10:48

My neighbour couldn't bf. She was told by mw's to feed her dd every 3 hrs and not a minute before. Unsurprisingly, she was told she didn't have enough milk, and within 4 days was ff.
OP, YANBU.
I do believe that with better support less mothers would struggle with it.
I have to see my dr tomorrow with Ds (5 weeks) to get a referral to have his tongue tie snipped. My hv has already warned me to be insistent, as they don't "get" bfing and will tell me that I've done my bit and should move onto formula.
If I wasn't as stubborn as I am, I would probably take their advice.

JeremyVile · 01/03/2011 10:48

You're right that our society (in general)doesn't support BF. Imo, it's part of the misoginy that colours everything. BF is something that gets in the way of the neat idea that tits are for men.

But I'm not sure about the resons for not BFing, the society thing might have a bearing on the decision for some but definitely not all. I think there is a lot of dishonesty (and nobody owes an honest explanation) about why they didnt BF.

Lots of women say they couldn't, when I think a lot of them mean: all things considered I didnt want/ feel able to put that much efort into that one aspect of caring for a new baby (because for some women it is all pretty smooth going, for others it's a bloody struggle physically/emotionally/timewise etc).

I dont know, I totally just cant relate to all the woe-is-me angst about not BFing. I didnt last long and I would never say I couldn't, I weighed it all up and very happily chose to move to FF.

But yes, the main point is that in general we are pretty shit at viewing BF as the natural, normal, fantastic thing it is.

NotQuiteCockney · 01/03/2011 10:49

If you don't want to breastfeed, then fair enough. It's a pity that you have to make excuses for it, rather than just being comfortable saying 'I don't want to.'

But there are lots of women out there who do want to breastfeed, and try very hard to, and it doesn't work out.

jaffacake, actually, not drinking enough doesn't tend to affect a mother's supply. As long as she drinks when she's thirsty, she should be fine.

Piggyleroux · 01/03/2011 10:50

I think the whole process of childbirth and bf is grossly underestimated in society these days. Childbirth is a traumatic event which you need time to recuperate from. I never got the chance, my inlaws were staying which affected bf and made me feel like shit.

I only succeeded with bf because my milk just came in one day and ds latched on like a pro.

TattyDevine · 01/03/2011 11:01

I think the one thing people just never consider with women who say they "can't" breastfeed is that of the non-latching child. (Thinking of your NCT teacher here, saying either your breasts are damaged or you have an underlying medical condition).

So, she's right in a sense that it might be that the woman CAN actually breastfeed but that's no bloody good if the baby CANT.

How do you actually make a baby who wont latch on, latch on? That's the one time the breastfeeding counsellors are as good as useless - if you've done everything possible, including the newborn breast crawl, lie in bed, skin to skin, all the different positions possible, whilst witholding any other kind of feed, etc etc, and they still wont latch, at what point do you say "this baby cannot breastfeed, we need to feed it some other way"?

Then the poor woman gets half raised eyebrows when she says she couldn't feed but really, in actual fact, she couldn't, because the baby wouldn't.

Sorry, its a slight tangent but its one of the lesser considered "reasons" why feeding can't occur. People focus so much on the fact that most boobs produce milk but it all goes to waste if the baby wont take it! You can't make them open their mouth and you can't make the suck, unfortunately!

omnishambles · 01/03/2011 11:06

I dont think you need to loll around in bed to establish bf actually - you just need to have all the facts (very thin on the ground in our society) and have support from your partner or be bloodyminded enough to do it.

Also because we dont want to discourage bf we dont tell people how hard it can be as we dont want to put people off trying and then when the difficulties start mothers assume its them and not that these are normal problems to overcome iyswim.

TattyDevine · 01/03/2011 11:09

"I dont think you need to loll around in bed to establish bf"

Sssshhhhh. They might be listening! Then we wont be able to insist on it anymore!

worraliberty · 01/03/2011 11:09

Well your Hindi neighbour was lucky to have family willing to do that. Though I'm not sure waiting on a new Mum hand and foot is the best way to get her used to motherhood.

I had no desire whatsoever to breast feed mine and believe it or not, no-one even questioned me on it.

coraltoes · 01/03/2011 11:11

Tatty, in that scenario could a mother not try to express and bottle feed? Thereby giving the baby breast milk in a way they might be able to drink more easily?

Vallhala · 01/03/2011 11:16

I'm with TheseThingsAreGoodThings insofar as I just didn't want to although I didn't make excuses for my choice.

I can see where Jaffacake is coming from - that many of us are more independent now and wouldn't like to ask others to run our homes/care for our other children and soforth. Personally I wouldn't want to have anyone doing this. As kindly as it might be meant I'd feel very uncomfortable about it and feel it was an intrusion.

Also, some of us, having been used a very "on the go" lifestyle pre-children, would feel terribly tied down by b/f. I can imagine little more boring and tedious than to stay in bed all day sleeping and feeding... I wanted to be up and out and about!

It is very much a case of each to their own and although f/f worked for me I have no desire to advocate it to other women. I believe that the issue is not as clear-cut as the OP suggests and that it must be remembered that regardless of the amount of support offered or available some of us would rather do things differently.

TattyDevine · 01/03/2011 11:17

Coraltoes - yes and no. Initially, you can syringe colostrum. Once your milk comes in (and you can start pumping before to stimulate it), you can express. BUT - it doesn't last forever. If you've never had a baby latch on, it tends to dry up within about 5 weeks. It just doesn't stimulate a supply in the way the strong suck of a newborn does. There are hormonal factors too which influence it if you only ever use a pump. So its not sustainable in the long term, no matter how dedicated you are.

SeeJaneKick · 01/03/2011 11:17

My breasts did not make any milk. No damage. It was emotional. SO it's not true about disease and damage.

Cleofartra · 01/03/2011 11:17

Agree. But the lack of support is as much emotional as it is practical.

We just don't 'get' breastfeeding in this country.

"I think the one thing people just never consider with women who say they "can't" breastfeed is that of the non-latching child".

A small number of babies will never be able to breastfeed effectively.

Some will take weeks to latch on well, many more take days.

Very few mums will have the support they need to overcome early latching problems that persist for more than a few days, or hours in many cases.

PepsiPopcorn · 01/03/2011 11:18

I found the opposite, there was so much promotion of breastfeeding that I felt terrible when I genuinely couldn't do it :(

PepsiPopcorn · 01/03/2011 11:20

(I would have felt terrible anyway BTW as it was so disappointing, but the way BF was so heavily pushed to me as SO much better than formula I felt even more of a failure).

nickytwotimes · 01/03/2011 11:20

it is a formula feeding culture, yes.

routine and 'getting back to normal' are still king for many.

i hope that changes.

Cleofartra · 01/03/2011 11:22

"Also, some of us, having been used a very "on the go" lifestyle pre-children, would feel terribly tied down by b/f. I can imagine little more boring and tedious than to stay in bed all day sleeping and feeding..."

Tiny babies need frequent feeding, whether they're breast or bottlefed, so you're not going to be a model of efficiency anyway in the first month after your baby's born. Personally I think the the lifelong benefits to a baby of breastfeeding are worth a few weeks of putting your own needs to be dynamic and active second.

Abcinthia · 01/03/2011 11:24

I personally received a lot of support while I breastfed. My mum, DP and health visitors were very helpful and supportive.

I did not produce enough milk. It's not an excuse. I tried desperately to breastfeed and my DD latched on perfectly (my mum told me some tips before DD was born and they greatly helped) but after 1½ weeks, my breasts didn't leak at all (the pads were bone dry). I tried to use the pump but all that came out was a tiny dribble. It ended up with my DD crying and wanting feeding every 5 minutes but she'd only drink for a minute or so because there was no milk. I had to switch to formula. I felt like such a failure for a long time afterwards.

JeremyVile · 01/03/2011 11:25

Oh yes, agree with that Val.

Also, I got inundated with BF 'support' when trying to establish BFing both at hospital and once home. Now dont get me wrong these women, I'm sure, were fab at what they do and would be a great help to some but for me I absolutely cannot bear that kind of thing - I felt totally crowded, it felt intrusive. I realise that's just down to my personality type but I cant be the only one.

The support itself almost made me say, fuck it - i'll give him a bottle (I did in the end anyway).

nickytwotimes · 01/03/2011 11:26

btw, those who feel judged for ffing, trust me, i have on ffed kid and one bf and you get judged for BOTH!

there is a terrible lack of real support in establishing bfing. the current policy of merely telling women they 'should' do it is very, very unhelpful.

Vallhala · 01/03/2011 11:26

We will have to agree to disagree, Cleofartra. I have two extremely healthy teenaged daughters and absolutely no regrets about the way they were fed whatsoever.

I do appreciate though that this is not the choice of many women and respect their right to chose and support any woman's decision to breastfeed as much as I defend my own not to, as some of my responses to the dreadful way some breastfeeding women have been treated in shops/cafes etc will testify.

toddlerama · 01/03/2011 11:28

I think we do it to ourselves a bit too. How many threads have you seen on here with the OP desperately planning to push the extended family away for the first 2 weeks before the baby even comes? We consider it a nightmare that MIL might be around too much, but then we don't get the extra domestic support required to concentrate on nursing. Can't have it both ways.

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