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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think our society/culture does not support bf...

96 replies

Kippersontoast · 01/03/2011 10:38

...and this is the main reason for a lot of women being unable to do it?

In my nct class we were told that you were only unable to breast feed if your breasts were damaged or you have an underlying medical condition. I am astonished at the amount of women on this and other forums who say that they didn't produce enough milk to feed their babies. Do all these women have damaged breasts or medical problems?

Anyway, it got me thinking after visiting my Hindi neighbour who had a baby two weeks ago and is overrun with support from her huge family. She stays in bed all day feeding and sleeping, is brought food and has nothing to worry about except establishing bf.

This simply doesn't happen in the western culture. Most of my friends had very little or no support from their family and were expected to just get on with it as well as looking after their other dc's, cleaning, laundry cooking etc. Needless to say, bf fell by the wayside because they couldn't just loll in bed all day.

I know some women really struggle with bf and I'm sure that if the conditions were right eg more support to enable them to do nothing but bf, a lot more women would be able to do it.

Aibu or is it just the way things are when families don't rally round?

OP posts:

MissyKLo · 01/03/2011 14:05

cleofarta - i know some women don't have enough, i did say that in my thread and i would never want people with real supply problems to feel bad but a lot of the time supply problems can be sorted. i had an awful time with my supply with my first child but persevered, kept feeding and got advice

i just think that some people use that too easily and it really takes away from women with genuine supply problems!

MigGril · 01/03/2011 14:07

Also a lot of women think they don't have enough milk, because they don't realise how often a young baby can need feeding. They often seem to think babies only need feeding every 3 hours, and worry they don't have enough milk when there newborn is asking to be fed every hour. Which is actualy perfectly normal newborn behavier,

mummy2aisha · 01/03/2011 14:11

I been bf for 18 months and Im proud to say it. The first 6 months you cant get anyone to look after your baby and in my case probably for the 1st year. Bf is very demanding and it means that the mother has to do all the nursing in the nighttime and for some mothers thats to much hard work espcailly those that want to piss it up on firday night. If your healthy then why wouldnt you want to bf its the best stuff for your baby and your child is a condfident person because of it.

wannaBe · 01/03/2011 14:11

I think the inability to breastfeed is something that is vastly underestimated.

The reality is that most women who are unable to breastfeed simply give up. I do not know a single woman who says she could not breastfeed that had actual medical testing to prove whether her inability to do so was down to medical issues or simply because she was doing it wrong.

I didn't produce milk. None. I produced collostrum but once that went no milk came to replace it. I've been told that I must be mistaken because it is so rare, but in truth how does anyone know? There is very little evidence to back that up. I've also been told that it could be down to a medical condition but given that was eight years ago there's really no way of knowing, and I really can't be arsed to feel bad about it. What gets to m me more is this implication that I was mistaken over my reasons for not being able to bf, rather than the fact that I could not bf iyswim.

I also think that people need to consider that in countries where bf is the norm, so is inphant mortality. Bf is the norm in many 3rd world countries simply because there isn't a safe alternative due to water supplies not being safe. But equally the inphant mortality is extremely high in these countries. Equally, 100 years ago there is plenty of evidence that women's milk dried up and that babies died as a result here. If you couldn't afford to hire a wet nurse and were unable to bf then the baby simply died. At least we have an alternative now.

I think the only benefits of bf are to babies, and those should not be underestimated, but once they start eating different foods there are so many other factors that bf cannot possibly have that great an impact. And the benefits of bf certainly aren't going to counteract the effects of the gallons of cyder they'll start swilling down the park in sixteen years time.

MissyKLo · 01/03/2011 14:16

WANNABE

this is what i mean when i say about how some women just use the excuse when there are ladies like you who had geuine problems! and of course you should not feel bad about it if you didn't have milk!

i do disagree that the benefits don't carry on once a baby is weaned though - i think the benefits are still there and very important. i have seen it, which is why bf is recommended to the age of two

bf helps my daughter who is 18 months in so many ways still and with teething etc and her general health, after jabs, when she is ill etc

wannaBe · 01/03/2011 14:23

if you took 100 children and put them together you would have no idea which ones had been bf as babies and which hadn't.

I am also somewhat at this notion that persiveerance (sp? is all that's need it, because let's face it persiveerance basically equals letting a baby starve until you get it right doesn't it? Yes attempting to feed them but not giving in for the demand for milk by offering an alternative while they continue to either lose or at the very least not gain weight, sometimes for weeks at a time.

MissyKLo · 01/03/2011 14:26

i didnt mean perseverance at all costs - sorry if i wasnt clear, but i see many ladies whose problems could be sorted with a little perseverance iyswim?

i had days when i thought i would blow up with the damn hardness of bf and the worry that my boobs were empty but it was persevering that made it all good in the end

but of course there are cases that this will not help so i didnt mean it is always about perseverance, but in many cases it can be

Vallhala · 01/03/2011 14:34

"for some mothers thats to much hard work espcailly those that want to piss it up on firday night."

And people wonder why not all formula feeding mothers are supportive of breastfeeding mothers!

Despite not being one to "piss it up" on a firday, Friday or any other night, this formula-feeder-by-choice-alone is almost inclined to join those who are less than complimentary about breastfeeding after that remark.

MissyKLo · 01/03/2011 14:36

c'mon over vallhala! join me for a

wannaBe · 01/03/2011 14:36

missy I'm sure you didn't but I've seen plenty of people on here who advocate doing just that.

Vallhala · 01/03/2011 14:38

:o @ MissyKLo

MissyKLo · 01/03/2011 14:38

i mean come over and join me as i think that remark is just awful!

mmsmum · 01/03/2011 14:39

OP I really don't get the family bit. BF is between Mother and baby and is very personal, very intimate and not something anyone else can help with.

I feel very lucky that BF went fine for me, it didn't think it was a big deal for anyone until meeting other Mums and realising it's not as natural for others as it was for me.

Personally I think everyone should try it because it is a beautiful thing to do, I also think women that are grossed out by it and immature and need to get over themselves. But at the end of the day is it anything to do with me? Nope. It's none of my business, it's their babies and their bodies.

This is my first, and probably my last, post on a BF thread. I don't get why there are so many of them? Everyone does, or should do, what they think is right for them and their baby. I say to hell with anyone else

MissyKLo · 01/03/2011 14:42

why does it matter how many bf threads there are?! no likey, no looky and posty on em!

the family help with everything else whilst the mum gets on just being with her baby - good for mum, good for baby and no other worries

tis a good thing!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 01/03/2011 14:43

Oh get over yourselves. Formula is designed for babies, not for anybody else. It's for feeding babies. If somebody can't BF (for whatever reason) it's a suitable alternative.

I'm sick and tired of women bleating on and on about BF and how it's the only thing that matters; it isn't. Blethering on about perseverence, etc. is only going to serve the purpose of making those who FF feel bad about it. But perhaps that's the idea behind these threads. Goodness knows there's been enough of them.

Never mind society not supporting BF, it doesn't seem to support mothering much.

Abcinthia · 01/03/2011 14:44

I agree wannaBe

When I had problems producing milk, I did talk to my Health Visitor about it. I even showed her me using the pump (I thought I might be doing it wrong but she assured me I was using it perfectly) and nothing more than about a few drops came out in about 10 minutes. She told me it didn't sound normal.

I went from breasts full of milk and DD having a good feed every hour or so, to DD having a feed every 5 minutes and being lucky to get a mouthful of milk. That happened in less than a week. I tried to half FF and half BF but within a couple of days no milk at all came out no matter what I tried. So 1½ weeks after DD was born, I had bone dry pads and no milk at all.

I did go on lots of forums, phoned up a BF helpline and tried EVERYTHING that was suggested. What else could I have done? Sit there and listen to my DD crying because she is starving, in the vain hope my boobs might fill with milk?

I do find it really annoying when people seem to think I just gave up or that it is so "rare" for milk to dry up that it could not have happened to me. I felt so awful about not being able to BF and just to hear people say stuff like that, made me feel even worse.

mmsmum · 01/03/2011 14:47

Missy did I say it mattered? Did I say I didn't like them? Erm, no! I said I don't get why there are so many of them. Nothing more, nothing less. You got your glasses on?

But now that you've asked, yes I think it does matter. Why is there so many? Why do so many women feel the need to post about it and write about their friends/neighbours/families and have another debate where the same things will be said over and over again. Really, I wish people would just care about their own and leave others in peace. All it seems to do is upset people for no good reason. You tell me, whats the point?

I had no family about and I don't know what you mean by 'everything else', when you've just had a baby there isn't anything else is there?

MissyKLo · 01/03/2011 14:49

abcinthia

of course you are not thought of as someone who gave up as you did all you could but your situation is not the norm so it is rare in a way! you did all you could and of course you should not feel bad

i am on about ladies who i have seen who give up because of the constant demand for milk and then say they have no milk etc - that is entirely different to your situation and if anything takes away from all your efforts to do all you can

please do not think that people think you gave up as i am sure that is not the case. you did all you could and of course you should not feel bad in any way

MissyKLo · 01/03/2011 14:50

well i like these threads mmsmum and this is a place to talk about everything including bf

for me there is a point but you are entitled to think differently

allsquareknickersnofurcoat · 01/03/2011 14:56

A lot of people dont realise that until the milk comes in (in normal circumstances, not two weeks down the line!) the baby doesnt NEED it. Formula is given in the first few days when there is only colostrum in the breast.

Everyone I know that FF did so because once they had given formula (early on) they felt it was all or nothing. The NHS is so OTT in promoting EXCLUSIVE BF and ignoring FF that people think they have failed the first time they give a bottle and they give up.

OP, to an extent, I agree with your point, but then my family were very supportive of BF (apart from my Nutty Nan!) and although they didnt leave me in bed () they did encourage me to feed and feed and feed in the early days to get my supply established.

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 01/03/2011 14:58

With dd I didn't produce any milk,I was dry as a bone, nada. Zilch. much as I wanted to breastfeed. So much so I had no bottles, milk etc and had to send dp out for them.....which was the day he famously came back with a lizard

With ds born 2 years later I produced so much milk I could have supplied the chuffin street and breastfed succesfully for well over a year.

So don't be so patronizing, I felt enough of a failure at the time I think if some silly arse had rolled along and announced if I had more support my dried up breasts would miraculously spring into life they wouldn't have got a very good reaction !

Abcinthia · 01/03/2011 14:59

MissyKLo It wasn't a rant at you or anyone on here - just a bit of a rant in general. I got it said to me quite a bit afterwards by people asking me why I had stopped breastfeeding. I tried to explain but they just would not listen, made quite rude remarks about it and were quick to say something like, "Well if you wanted to stop why make an excuse?" I was made to feel like some sort of criminal for not somehow continuing.

I do feel that sometimes people are a bit quick to say they have no milk, maybe because they don't understand how much a baby feeds. But likewise there are people who are being sincere who are accused of just using excuses.

allsquareknickersnofurcoat · 01/03/2011 15:02

Apocalypse , the OP already said that it wasnt people who genuinely didnt have enough milk, just those who claimed they didnt after minimum effort or didnt even try at all.
You obviously tried so she doesnt mean you :)

Vallhala · 01/03/2011 15:04

"So much so I had no bottles, milk etc and had to send dp out for them.....which was the day he famously came back with a lizard "

PMSL :o :o :o

Apocalypse, I think I'm in love with your DP.

EleanorJosie · 01/03/2011 15:04

I don't know, I said to my DH when I had DD1 that all I was going to do in the first couple of weeks was feed and change the baby and he accepted that and cooked meals, did the washing and stuff. Good job too as I was quite bruised and sore from stitches and 2nd degree tear. I didn't want to stay in bed (mainly as it was too hot) but I didn't do very much. When DD2 was born I guess I had to do a little more but again DH was very helpful, took DD1 to nursery, did housework so I didn't have to do that much. Also I wanted to do more as I recovered a lot faster from the birth. And it was cold being February.

I don't pretend to be a BF guru or anything - basically I just did what was easiest each time. First time round it was easiest to feed DD1 for seven months or so...second time round DD2 fed like a trooper but I switched to bottles at three months as also that was more convenient at the time. She took to bottles like a duck to water as well.

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