Ex forces members as schoolteachers, (Panorama tonight?)

[GabbyLoggon]

Are they being unreasoable?

Its a government idea copied from America
(suprise, suprise)

Training ex forces members to be schoolteachers (It has always been open for them to do that.)

Is it a gimmick? The trouble is Cameron learned from Blair the art of regular publicity stunts.

So it is difficult to know what to take seriously.

What do the teaching profession think of it? "Gabby"

No MilaMae it can help improve things, if its got the potential to do good than why stop it. Nobody is criticising the teachers, they do an excellent job, in at times quite difficult conditions, and this is to help teachers not put them down.

The power is taken away from teachers, but this is giving it back to them and teaching exisisting teachers new skills.

Mila - don't get so defensive. There are problems in schools - a lot is down to the loss of effective sanctions; the lack of support from some parents and their lack of interest as well; to the sanctions available not being consistently applied across the board and to the kids knowing there is not a lot we can do.

However - lots of the lads I taught responded better to male teachers than to female and many needed a strong male role model. That doesn't mean someone who is quick to shout or to bark orders, but someone who had an air of authority and weren't threatened by the disruptive lads. If ex military who want to teach and get their QTS can help with that discipline in school, then that has to be a good thing.

I think your cadet force comment was also misguided. I've taught in a school where there was a cadet force, but you didn't have to do it, and no-one looked down on you because you didn't do it, any more than those who don't do DofE at state schools are looked down on.

When things like this stop coming out of the woodwork then I will take what I have said back: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5360432.stm

This is what I mean by army personel's training leaving them with a different way of handling situations than normal civillians. They are trained for war, war is not a natural state of affairs (well actually it could be argued that it is considering human history ), it is brutal, harsh and inhumane and I wouldn't want someone who's training and life has been centred around a career of violence to teach my children without a serious pschological analysis to see if he is mentally OK. Much psycho-analytical research has been done into the mental conditioning of the military as well as documentary's being made and even reports from military professionals themselves coming to light.

I am in now way saying that this is a problem with every single military person but it is a far reaching problem indeed.

I haven't read all the posts but will come back to this later tonight. As I have said, I may very well come back and acknowledge that I was incorrect, but I doubt it at this moment.

I'm off to help plan a double lesson for a bunch of teenage boys for tomorrow incidently so will be back after that.

How exactly is it giving teachers power?

I agree - in DCs primary, there is one male teacher. He is most well liked but also the most feared! If anyone (espeically boys) is really naughty, they are sent to him to be disciplined.

He made a 6 yr old boy I know (who was swinging on his chair) stand up for the whole day, even for his lunch! That learnt him .

Something needs to be done, its fact, its there stareing you in the face. Being a TA really opened my eyes to the lack of respect from pupils towards the teacher. For example I was helping in an English class, it was only 1 hour but the poor teacher spend half of that hour trying to keep control, and could not teach the full lesson properly. There were only a few being disruptive and downright rude, but boy did they ruin everybody elses learning experience.

LDN if they have the right skills for the job than thats fine, sometimes it needs different imput, and studies have shown that pupils respond better to this approach, and that is what sink schools need as it can be likened to a war zone.

LDN - incidents like that are few and far between. Yes, there are people in the Forces who abuse their position and quite rightly find themselves in hot water when it comes to light. However, the vast majority of personnel serve with distinction and with unblotted copybooks.

To tar them all with such a broad brush because of the criminal actions of some twisted individuals is to do them a vast disservice. No soldier who had had committed such acts would be allowed anywhere near a classroom.

Again how is it giving power back to teachers?

Giving existing teachers new skills,how exactly and why does it need the military?

All this talk of adequate discipline, if they become teachers they will be subject to the same restrictions and laws on how they conduct disciplinary actions as other teachers. Teachers are soft today because parents complain about the slightest thing (some threads on here will prove that) and teachers cannot even touch a pupils arm anymore without it possibly being a cause of scrutiny and (with a complaint from child) possibly leading to an investigation or disciplinary action against the teacher. I have seen this happen!

LDN....and???

Anyone, whether they are trained to go to war or not, can go a bit loopy and shouldn't be teaching children!

CRB checks don't weedle out the weirdos - for all you know, you could have a well-dodgy person teaching your DCs right now.

There are unsuitable people in all walks of life; looking after our children, being gynacologists, running countries, flying planes etc. I would describe myself as a neurotic mummy most of the time but even I don't think we can out all of the baddies all of the time.

Adequate discipline certain;y doesn't mean physical discipline LDN!!! When I said about the softly, softly approach, I simply meant that sanctions following bad beahviour, were not always the same across the board and therefore don't illustrate to students a unified approach.

Well Mila some schools do need the military approach, and yes military personnel can provide a new dynamic in schools, dont be so closed minded. From the documentary its not about being all touch and shouty, its the opposite, the lower your voice and the changing of the tone and how you carry yourself, the more respect you can command.

meant tough, sorry its late

Agree with LDN.It is the suing culture and parents that are to blame not teachers,kids can't even play conkers these days.

I also have concerns re ex military from Afganistan. It's already been reported at how underfunded helping said soldiers cope with the trauma of life in the field is. Not sure shoving ex soldiers in front of stroppy inner city kids is going to be good for any mental wellbeing let alone somebody with recent front,line experience. Also if they were at risk of flipping it wouldn't show up on any CRB check.

Its like going back to basic parenting really, some pupils just do not have that at home so it shows in the classroom.

Perhaps you would like to look at the behaviour of those involved in gangs in London and elsewhere as a comparison. Is their behaviour in murdering people normal civilian behaviour then? Their behaviour doesn't count as brutal, harsh and inhumane?

I am trying to make allowances for your pregnancy brain, but come on. For every incident you want to put up like that, there will be one in the paper that is carried out by a civilian, so that doesn't wash lady.

Again, you generalise - the military isn't about violence - they work for the Ministry of Defence, not Offence. There are many different trades, but you continue to ignore the information you are being given. My dh's career has been centred around engineering in a black tube and then the international HQ/diplomatic arena. You don't get far in those sorts of areas without being mentally OK. Perhaps you mean that the Forces don't tend to swallow all the left wing bullshit that is peddled in teacher training and the media and possess a healthy dose of scepticism.

I suppose it would be OK for a reformed gang member to teach? I wouldn't anyone like that teaching my child because of the association with crime and drugs, but I wouldn't be able to insist on a psychological assessment before they taught, so why should ex Forces personnel have to put up with crap like that?

Links to the psychoanalytical research please so we can judge if it is accurate or skewed beyond belief as these things usually are.

Word to the wise as well; just because it's on the TV (documentary or Teachers TV) doesn't mean there isn't a bias, or that it hasn't been heavily edited.

Don't forget the differentiation with the planning.

I think its certainly worth a try, the fact is that studies are showing promising results in the States. In the STates they have military schools and have done for years, they seem to be very successful. LIke I said it the teacher has the right skills than whats wrong.

Piglet err you do know we all do know how to lower our voices and carry ourselves.The military don't have the monopoly on it.

You do know there is more to lowering ones voice in order to have good classroom control.

As another example about what piglet's talking about, often, if I ask my kids to do something, they just look at me. Then I'll raise my voice and they'll probably answer back.

When DH (army) is home, he asks them and if they don't do it, he uses his stern voice. If they then don't do it, he makes them stand in front of him, telling them he wants to see their arms by their sides and eyes looking at him. They just do it! I am lost as to why I don't have this effect but I guess DH has to have guys marched in to him and he has to tell them off if they've done something wrong. In a war zone, it's vital that soldiers have respect for each other and for their officer commanding and asking them nicely and offering a gold star if they do it isn't going to necessarily get that!

Just thought i'd re highlight this post by LDN

All this talk of adequate discipline, if they become teachers they will be subject to the same restrictions and laws on how they conduct disciplinary actions as other teachers. Teachers are soft today because parents complain about the slightest thing (some threads on here will prove that) and teachers cannot even touch a pupils arm anymore without it possibly being a cause of scrutiny and (with a complaint from child) possibly leading to an investigation or disciplinary action against the teacher. I have seen this happen!

Again what new skills can ex mil bring to the table which teachers aren't already utilising?

Like Scareyteacher has said the military is not all about violence, and not all in the military and fighting on the front line.

Yes, teacups I have the same effect on my kids compared to my DH. Don't kid yourself it's about warzones. It's about your kids being reasonably malleable and you being more of a pushover than your DH.

Doesn't mean it will translate into a classroom full of someone elses kids

Victoria I have already mentioned in my posts, the communication and interpersonal skills.