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AIBU?

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Original poster

Ex forces members as schoolteachers, (Panorama tonight?)

552 replies

GabbyLoggon · 28/02/2011 11:53

Are they being unreasoable?

Its a government idea copied from America
(suprise, suprise)

Training ex forces members to be schoolteachers (It has always been open for them to do that.)

Is it a gimmick? The trouble is Cameron learned from Blair the art of regular publicity stunts.

So it is difficult to know what to take seriously.

What do the teaching profession think of it? "Gabby"

OP posts:
notyummy · 28/02/2011 22:30

Mila- I dont think most people think most/all majority of ex-military would be suitable as teachers. Just that not all if them would be automatically unsuitable.

Don't think cadets is a bad thing, as an OPTION obviously - nit enforced. And probably only if a clear majority of parents in favour.

Preferential treatment- didn't watch the programme so not sure on proposals? If it is line with some of the other things like Teach First then maybe worth a go. Agree that giving the message that teachers are all rubbish is completely unhelpful.

vintageteacups · 28/02/2011 22:30

About the preferential treatment bit - civvie companies have head hunters for their top jobs, why on earth couldn't the government head hunt great ex-forces people (or any other great people for that matter)?

Oh and JCScot and Scary - perfectly illustrated points Smile

victoriascrumptious · 28/02/2011 22:34

I'm just waiting for this thread to be linked in to aarse. They'll all be over here ranting. Can't wait.

Back in the morning

x

vintageteacups · 28/02/2011 22:34

A couple of years ago, people (not purely ex-forces) could fast track to being high up in the police force and nobody moaned about that. Also, there was a fast track teaching scheme that enabled talented peple from industry to get into headship posts quite quickly.

If someone (anyone, not only ex-forces) is skilled enough and can prove their worth as a head teacher for example, why on earth should they not?

scaryteacher · 28/02/2011 22:37

It's Arrse - be accurate please. For an Army site, it is very informative.

MilaMae · 28/02/2011 22:37

Because Vintage they're not just hunting the best which happens in civvy life but giving all military personal eligible a leg up(compressed courses and funding from what I understood on the programme) which others who could be equally as good or better will be excluded from.

Sorry I don't want my kids in a school with that military cadet culture at all regardless of weather they'd have to be members or not. What happens to the kids who don't like it and don't want to take part,are they made to feel 2nd class. Complete unnecessary tosh.

jcscot · 28/02/2011 22:37

"They'll all be over here ranting."

No, they're probably all over there laughing at some of the outlandish opinions being expressed.

The (ever-so polite) ranting is currently to be found over in the Forces' Sweetheart's area...

scaryteacher · 28/02/2011 22:39

VTC - because despite millions being spent on their training and leadership; despite MAs from KCL and MSCs from Cranfield; despite working with other nations in NATO and the EUMS and with ministers, our dh's are nothing but uneducated thugs according to people like VS.

jcscot · 28/02/2011 22:39

"For an Army site, it is very informative."

It is, actually and pretty reasonable if you swerve past the dodgier areas of the site. I've never visited the Naval equivalent (Rum Ration, I think?) but I gather there's quite a purple flavour to Arrse.

meditrina · 28/02/2011 22:40

Milamae: I found that school odd too, but can't see that it typifies what "Teach Next" is about. They managed to show lots of uniforms, but also said that only 20% of the school take part in CCF, so I suspect the editing. If they'd wanted a school with a real and total military ethos, they'd have gone to DOYRMS. Something's up with those choices.

I see what you mean about the tone of voice bit: whilst I was watching, I interpreted it quite differently, in that it was a refutation of the shouty stereotype. The comment from the British pupil about a quiet approach and the greater respect given to the ex-military staff seemed to be going the same way.

But the most interesting point to me was the US information on how the ex-military teachers had higher ratings than teachers of similar age/experience, and vastly better pupil results ("stellar"). Anyone on here know more about that research?

doonhamer · 28/02/2011 22:40

e-goat is good

vintageteacups · 28/02/2011 22:41

ooh - popping back over there then .....

Milamae "giving all military personal eligible a leg up"

.....but only if they are good enough!!!
If someone doesn't get QTS, then they cannot teach. There's no difference - they're not going to accept someone who is incapable of teaching children (and there would be many) FFS. Ooh, I'm cross Angry

jcscot · 28/02/2011 22:42

"...our dh's are nothing but uneducated thugs according to people like VS."

I know - my husband does like to pick his knuckles up from off the ground occasionally to write regular papers for consideration at government level. Then he just goes back to punching people.

itsalarf · 28/02/2011 22:43

This is just a non issue for me. I don't like the idea of preferential treatment particularly. However all I really care about is that decent teachers get to teach, and that those who are not decent don't. Despite lurid headlines, there are lots of good teachers out there. My concern with all teacher training is that people who are not cutting it should not complete the course - no matter where they have originated from. Poor teachers make the job harder for everyone else.

jcscot · 28/02/2011 22:45

"e-goat is good "

I know that the relevant CoCs keep a close eye on the sites as they are a useful bellweather for morale.

pigletmania · 28/02/2011 22:53

I think that its a fantastic idea, espceially in problem schools. They are all qualified and have to do a PGCE and appropriate GCSEs like any other trainee teacher. I was a TA at a rough comprehensive school and the classroom was chaos, pupils, especially boys I noticed had no repect for the teacher, swearing, backchating, pupils even caught having sex under the table Shock I think thats what certain schools need, strict, disciplinarian type approach to teaching so that respect and order is brought back to the classrooms once more.

pigletmania · 28/02/2011 22:56

Something has to be done, there are teachers/pupils that are attacked in school and made to feel fearful whilst in the classroom, its not right, if it works which it seems like it is than I am all for it.

scaryteacher · 28/02/2011 22:57

Haven't looked at e-goat and I prefer Arrse to Rum ration, especially for SDSR stuff. It is very purple in places.

Like the picking the knuckles up from the ground comment - similar levels of briefing required from my dh, don't know what the RN equivalent of knuckled would be though. Frigging in the rigging perhaps as they obviously have fuck all else to do (to paraphrase a well known ditty from my youth).

victoriascrumptious · 28/02/2011 22:58

masturbating in the grating

vintageteacups · 28/02/2011 22:59

have a look at our parent's generation (their language/respect for others etc) and then look at our generation (late 20's to 40's) and then look at the teenagers on the streets, hurling abuse, stabbing people at random, using blue language as if it's the norm etc.

If teaching has been so great in the last 10/15 years, then surely the younger generations would be socially better behaved than they are (obviously I'm making a sweeping generalisation about some youths, not specifically about all youths)

Schools need to do something. Yes, parents have the main responsibilty but allowing the children to get disciplined using the softly, softly approach doesn't seem to be working.

scaryteacher · 28/02/2011 22:59

No VS, they don't have gratings now - times have changed.

jcscot · 28/02/2011 23:00

"Frigging in the rigging perhaps as they obviously have fuck all else to do"

Because rescuing stranded civvies (Libya, anyone?) doesn't happen often enough these days. Wink

MilaMae · 28/02/2011 23:01

"softly softly approach" right so that's how we all teach,all us crappy teachers are to blame and oh only the military can turn things roundHmm

pigletmania · 28/02/2011 23:05

Exactly vintage I am watching the programme now on catch up, and research has showed in the States it works, and the results are very promising. If thats what it takes to get our childrens literacy, numeracy, and manners up to par than so be it. At home a lot of children have a very bad homelife with poor role models especially the boys with male role models, they may not have a father present or another male to look up to, so this approach can help give the structure and the role models that these children need.

vintageteacups · 28/02/2011 23:05

No - I'm not talking about the teachers; I'm talking about how teachers are taught to teach and what is and isn't allowed in schools.