To not understand how someone can take their own life

[SunshineisSorry]

and just want to say - whatever seems so bad just now, may well not even matter this time tomorrow/next week/month/year.

Three suicides since xmas in our local area, same spot :( Two of these people known to me (not really personally, but to say hello to iyswim). Both of them, on the surface, had everything to live for. Seemingly succesful businesses, sorted lives, people i have evnvied. One guy - my age (40s), three daughters , gorgeous, WTF would he take himself off and stand in front of a fucking train? WHY???

I can't get my head round it, i just can't. I suffer from depression/anxiety and we are struggling with almost insurmountable debt, likely to lose our house - even at my very lowest ebb (and i have been low and completely irrational)i have a survival instinct because i cannot comprehend or even begin to think about the damage it would cause my children if i were to do such a thing.

I fluctuate between thinking that these people are selfish bastards, and weak, but i know deep down this is not true. I have often felt that my DDs would be better without me, but deep down i know this isn't true - even in moments of "madness" i just don't know how anyone could actually do it. I think i have been as close to suicidal as you can be without actually being it, if that makes any sense at all and thats what frightens me, things are stressful for us just now, but they are good, i have beautiful children and a loving DP and no matter what happens with the money stuff etc I HAVE A FUTURE!!

It pains me deeply that there is possibly someone i know, well or otherwise, a neighbour, a mnetter at this moment in time who actually believes that there life is worth nothing, that even if things are as shit as shit gets, there is no way out other than oblivion.

I can only conclude that there is something very very wrong in their brain chemistry. Can't face up to their lives, but can stand in the path of an oncoming train?

We need to, as human beings, have more empathy for others - we need to TAKE NOTICE of people. We go through our lives absorbed in our own problems and people who we assume are doing ok are as low as a human being can get.

I never really understood it myself until recently. At church 3 women in their 40s/50s have done this and it is really upsetting.

I was very depressed 2 years ago and we went away to bournemouth and i looked down the cliff and thought i could jump i feel so bad.

It is the people you leave behind and i managed to overcome it and things got better. this year it started again and again i am really struggling with anxiety/depression. I have the urge to get in my car and disappear and start a new life somewhere else anonymously and re invent myself.

I have a christian faith which really helps but until i experienced it myself i never understood.

the mind is so powerful and just because you think things are a certain way it doesn't make them true.

mine has alot to do with control and things i can't control which i want to.

Depression can cause people to do any number of things.

I myself considered the train a few years ago, I managed to get past it, but it would have been so easy when lifes problems weighed so heavy.

My life is still shit but the pills make it bearable.

I haven't read the whole thread thouroughly yet, but the way I see it is that people who commit suicide do it because they want the pain they are experiencing to stop.

Sometimes they want the pain to stop, sometimes they really want their life to be over. There is a difference, but both groups of people will attempt suicide, and sadly that means that people who didn't really want to be dead will end up losing their life. Because in those moments they felt like there was no other option.

It's about coping mechanisms. What one person can cope with can drive another to suicide.

Basically if your suffering outweighs your ability to cope, you will think about suicide. And if you think about it for too long, and have no release from those feelings, it doesn't matter how good your life looks from the outside, or the other people you have to live for.

My dear cousin took his own life just like that, he was young and had everything to live for. I still cant get my head around it? I think of him a lot. The way he planned it was so meticulous, they found his body 3 days later at work.

Are you getting some help Alemci? Are there people you can talk to in RL?

Shockers, my DH is wonderful, he was so patient and helped me every step of the way. Despite it being such a horrible time it really strengthened our marriage.

For those trying to understand, remember that there are two different types of depression. The first less serious type is reactive depression where you feel depressed due to life events - a breakup, family illness, etc. Usually when circumstances change the depression lifts. The other type is more serious and can strike even when everything seems perfect, just like any illness. It's due to a chemical imbalance in the brain and leads to very disordered thinking. No amount of pointing out how good a person's life is will make them feel better, in fact it'll probably make them feel worse as they feel they should be ok but they're not. This type of depression usually responds well to medication - I took fluoxetine for 6 months and that really really helped. So looking at people who've committed suicide due to chemical depression and saying "oh why did they do it, their life is perfect" means about as much as saying "oh why did they die from cancer, their life is perfect." Perfect lives do not cure illness.

Writerofdreams a very good post there, my depression is not reactive.

I tried to commit suicide at 22 when I was 18 weeks pregnant with my second son, my eldest son was only 6 months old at the time.

My husband has suffered from depression on and off for years and had been going through a bad patch at the time of my overdose (I took 92 parecetamol). I guess the stress of feeling like I had to do everything for everyone all the time just completely overwhelmed me.

Funnily enough I think that the overdose helped me turn a corner. I only realised after I had done it what a stupid mistake I had made and what effect it would have on the people around me. At the time, I was just sort of in a daze, like my brain was numb. I was being extremely selfish but I just could not think past that moment. I couldn't imagine a time where things would be better and I would be happy, couldn't imagine my husband and family's reactions, or my son growing up without me. Afterwards I realised all the things I had to live for and felt quite angry at myself for what I nearly did to myself and my unborn baby. My son that I was pregnant with at the time has recently been diagnosed with autism and I can't help but feel (perhaps wrongly) that it is my fault and I damaged him while he was in the womb. I will always feel guilty about it but in a way I'm glad because I know 100% that I will never, ever try it again. I realise now what I have to live for.

To anyone who has been affected by the death of a loved one I'm very sorry for your losses. Unfortunately a lot of people who have suicidal thoughts don't tell anyone as they don't think anyone else will be able to help how they feel and I really wish more people were able to open up about how they really feel and get the help they need.

Because people do desperate, awful things when they hit rock bottom. Yes, things might not be that bad the next day but when things are truly getting you down to the point you don't want to go on living, you don't think like that.

It isn't selfish, it's incredibly sad. I've been there and so have other people close to me. We've managed to drag each other out of that pit of despair, thought often only for time being.

My mum once knew someone who chucked themselves in front of a train. Incredibly the lady survived but my god was she in a terrible state afterwards, not just physically (lost both legs) but mentally too because she felt even worse. She told my mum that standing on the track waiting for he train was the most terrifying moment of her life- she actually remembers wetting herself with fear. But she still stood there because as far as she was concerned being hit by a train (bearing in mind it was supposed to kill her) was better than hanging about here and being miserable.

Rather than ponder the mentality of other people who are clearly depressed and at their lowest ebb I think you should count your lucky stars you've never felt that low. I don't mean that in a horrible way. I envy people who just don't ever seem to feel that low.

When i was 16 my most favourite uncle in the whole world killed himself. He was happy, cheerful and had never suffered from depression (none of his family knew that there was anything wrong)
He was under 30, no money problems, witty, funny happy.

To this day (i am 40 now) i think about him every single day, it was the most significant event of my life and influenced every single thing i did.

I am a health care worker now and deal with it directly regularly, well, near suicide attempts.

Although my uncles death ultimately caused my grandmothers death and ill health in close relatives, mental health issues in other family memebers as none of us ever got over it, never understood it, and never got answers to it, i feel nothing but empathy towards these people.
I dont see it as selfish i see it as desperate.

Every one has a fight in life.

saffy, that is so awful - almost makes you wish she had gotten what she wanted, is that such an awful thing to think/say?

I have never understood it but then I haven't been to 'that place'. I do understand they must have been desperate and see no way out :(

unfortunately I was at a railway tracks when a women had commited suicide. It haunted me for ages afterwards and had really bad problems sleeping. She had a husband and 2 teenage sons so I can't even imagine how they feel :(

Saffy without meaning to offend but apparently most people don't die trying to commit sucide that way. They normally lose limbs :(

I live next to said railway track and there was 3 suicides in the space of a few months. It's very sad and most of them were young :(

My DF committed suicide when I was 17 and I was absolutely heartbroken. I can understand why he did it (he was a very active man but had developed arthritis throughout his body - his biggest fear was being wheelchair bound) but I sometimes wonder why he wanted to leave us. He was my best friend and spent a lot of time together through my hobby and I just feel incredibly sad sometimes that he's not around to see ds grow up or help us renovate this bloody house or just be there for a hug! I sometimes get angry with him that he did this to us but sometimes feel sorry that he got himself into such a state that he felt that suicide was the only way out.
It was 15 years ago now and I still miss him every day but life goes on and I have my own life to lead. As a family we talk about him often and have a good joke on his behalf :) (my DP calls the anniversary 'dead Dad day' )

I can't say what was going on in his head that horrible day and I don't think about it anymore as I end up going round and round in circles. The questions can only be answered by the man himself and speculating isn't going to resolve them. I know some people who have lost friends/family members through suicide need to find these answers but I think it is an exercise in futilityas the definitive answer can never be found. For some people who take their own lives the reasons are obvious but no one truly knows the reason and the thought processes involved.

I will probably sound a bit harsh when I say this but it is generally my mantra is: shit happens, deal with it and move on.
If you don't, you end up affecting your own life and not living it to the best you can. Give yourself time to grieve and then get on with living your life as you can't live in the past. (saying that though, I do still have my moments, usually when I'm hormonal or a lot little bit pissed and feeling maudlin, I have a good cry and get it out of my system. It's healthy! :))

I suppose it can be a depressed state of mind. Or just a rational thing with the elderly. People who do it see no other options at that time. The Samaritans do a good job. "Gabby"

I'm not offended but the lady who did this most likely thought it would end things like others who attempt it this way. I think the worst outcome for her was that that she felt like she had failed. She had obviously but to her it was yet another thing she "hadn't got right". That and from then until the day she died (might have been cancer bu not sure) she would beg others to help her die.

HK13 I know you mean what you say in the best way possible but your post makes me really really angry. I am so sorry about your father and it's a terrible thing to have to go through, I do sympathise with you and can understand your feelings about it. But it's clear from your last paragraph that you don't understand depression/suicidal feelings at all

Depression is an illness Suicidal thoughts arise when a person's thinking is very unwell and disordered. It doesn't happen because the person can't deal with life, and it's not because they don't have coping strategies. Plenty of people don't cope well with life and still don't commit suicide. This is because they are not ill. They are not suicidal. Crying will not make a depressed person feel better or less suicidal. If I could have "moved on" when I was depressed I would have, believe me. But I was ill and thinking and coping do not cure illness.

It is attitudes like yours that make suicidal people feel alone and helpless. Everyone seems to believe they can just snap out of it. Well next time you have a cold tell yourself to snap out of it and see how effective it is.

Sorry if I come across snippy but this really gets to me.

OP. If you can't understand it then you haven't suffered the same type of anxiety/depression/life problems as them or if you have, you them you have more resilience to cope with it.

Horrible that people kill themselves, truly horrible, but I do understand it.

HK13

Whoa 17 is so young.

Great advice though! - you came through.

So true Writer I wish it was that easy to "snap out of it". Don't know why it's still acceptable to tell someone with depression to "snap out of it, shit happens after all". You wouldn't tell someone with Cancer to snap out it would you?

I would never actuallt compare cancer to depression- they aren't the same but ime depression takes hold on your mind like cancer does on your body. And once it's there it's a bugger to get rid of.

WriterofDreams

Try not to be judgemental - people here are just being supportive. There are no right or wrong answers - victims of suicide get through the best they can - and they KNOW what it feels like to be on the receiving end.

I was so worried this thread would be full of words like 'selfish' and 'pull themselves together', and I'm quite grateful there's been such empathy.

My friend, aged 20, took her life just two weeks ago. Most of my friends (including me) have depression, so we're a nice group of supportive people, but there were no signs. There was nothing significant about that day. It was just a day when she couldn't fight it any more. I'm still trying to come to terms with it; it's affected me so f*cking much.

Writer of dreams- I apologise if I have offended you with my post but I was trying (albeit unsucessfully ) to describe MY coping strategy for dealing with my fathers death, not how I would talk to someone who is suffering from depression or having suicidal thoughts. I do understand the complex emotional situations people find themselves in and would certainly not tell them to 'get a grip' or 'have a good cry and things will feel better'.
Depression is an awful place to be and I am far from qualified to give detailed advice and would (and have) helped them find the best proffessional help possible. I try to be a shoulder to cry on/someone to shout at or just to let them know I am there for them.

This is a sad but informative thread, I think and I hope it does stay up.
I used to have suicidal thoughts as a teen but never strong enough to really go through with it, or even an attempt - although I had the black depression days at times, they were never (lucky for me) so awful that I really really needed to make them stop.
My parents never did or said much - but Dad told me years later that they were hurting for me because they just didn't know what to do to help me.

The only people I knew who killed themselves all had mental illnesses. One was anorexic as well; I didn't know her well enough to know what the exact cause was but she developed it at University.
Another developed severe paranoid schizophrenia with devil delusions after a party where he almost certainly took drugs - he was very ill the next few days and the mental illness came on immediately the physical one improved.
And one of my friends had a brother who had paranoid schizophrenia and he couldn't stand to live with the voices in his head any more. Lovely lovely bloke, so gentle - but in so much pain, torment. Although his sister (my friend) was heartbroken to lose him, she did manage to accept it because she felt that he had found peace now.

OP - you are lucky that you have enough control over your rational thoughts to never experience the need for suicide - I was lucky too that my need was never that strong, my depression wasn't that bad. Some people just aren't so lucky.

A man I worked with committed suicide by jumping - sorry, won't say more about what he did in case he's known to anyone.

He left a daughter in her early twenties who'd just achieved huge success.

He spoke to people on his way to commit suicide - it was clearly suicide, not an accident. Those people say he seemed fine - chatty, pleasant etc. I saw him a couple of weekends before (due to work) and he seemed absolutely fine.

That's what's so scary, isn't it? That someone could be so depressed, so absolutely out of his mind with depression, and yet appear normal. It's so much easier to help someone if they seem depressed in the way we usually recognise it - pale, lack of sleep, crying, etc. To put on this act of normality yet have those terrible feelings inside must be awful.

And yet, whilst I have every sympathy for him, I think of his daughter so often. That was the year she succeeded in something against all odds, and within a month or two her father who'd backed her all the way had taken his own life. How could she think of that year, when she'd achieved so much, and be happy? How could he not have known?

berryshake - i am so sorry, really awful for you.

I was with the man who did this recently where i live, leaving three young girls without a daddy and i did think "selfish bastard" but i know that actually, once you are at that stage, selfish doesn't come into it - i just feel so desperately sad about it. He was gorgeous (i fancied him), he had a successful business etc etc - it just goes to show - for whatever reason, life is just black and white.

What i have learnt from it is to not judge people, you know, we all judge negatively don't we - oh look at tht woman she is a bad mother because, she is a slapper because, he is a cunt because.....I think we also judge positively too, "oh well its alright for them they have xy and z" "they are ok aren't they, they have bla bla bla!"

We need to be kinder to each other.

My DP, when referring to my deprssion/anxiety really struggles to see it as an illness. Doctor has said to him "if Sunshine had a bad back you would be able to understand her pain and feel able to help" its the lack of understanding. His classic line is - "its all in the mind" YES exactly, it IS all in the mind, but the mind gets sick too - christ, our brains control everything and are controlled by our bodies in turn, the potential for mental illness, to me, is as significant as potential for "physical" illness.

I don't think writer has been judgemental AT ALL, it is an emotive subject.

HK13, the deal with and move on approach to problems is very dangerous as bottling things up and not recognising you are struggling is a very dodgy path to walk.

I work in a school and a few weeks ago a pupil took their own life . They hung themselves. The pupil was 12. Was a polite, beautiful child and was actually sat on our reception twice that week (we have helpers each period to do our errands), laughing, joking and being their usual lovely self .

I never want to go through something like that again, it was horrific.