AIBU to think non vaccination is child abuse

[alittlevoice]

There was this discussion in another thread and i thought i would make a new thread so it doesn't over taken someone elses

To me not vaccinating your child is akin to child abuse because you are putting them at undue risk of disease which is preventable due to scare mongering or from quack doctors that have long been struck off the medical register and shunned from the medical community

I hate the assumption that because there has been no reported cases it means you shouldn't vaccinate your children it's because children have been vaccinated regularly that there has not been a epidemic

leading doctors (not the quacks) have been worried for some time about the rise of mumps because of the scare mongering and children not getting vaccinated and get seriously Ill and have to be saved by modern medicine (which quack parents are always keen to take up on with there anti vaccination stance)

rubella has a incubation period as many other diseases so if your child has it and you dont know and child is near a pregnant woman and she loses her child due to non immunisation I don't understand how as a parent you'd do that to another person

So the long and short of it is why are some parents touched in the head and think they have the right for there child to possibly kill unborn children and infect younger babies too young to have the choice (and for those saying this is far fetched its as plausible of something going wrong from immunisations)

Aww - see I knew I loved Singapore for a reason (not sarcastic at all, I would live there again in a heartbeat)

Mine will be getting the chickepox vaccine, as even though there are some question marks about its long term effectiveness, I think that on balance it's worth having.

Agree bubbly mummy, no evidence that it causes sterility from my research, however I've seen mumps in an adult male, and it's certainly no laughing matter whether it would cause sterility or no.

bubbley up to a 1/3 of males who dont get immunised get reduced sperm motility and while some of this happens when they are older they still have the risk of it happening when they are children

And no i havent given my DD the chicken pox vaccine because she had poxs when she was 4 months old so already has the immunity

and you've had her checked for immunity yes? As not all people who get chickenpox get immunity from it - I know of 2 people (poor sods) who've had it twice (including myself as a child).

CP - it only lasts 5-7 years and it is not as effective in adulthood so your children may end up unprotected as adults when the risk of complications is higher.

alittlevoice " but think its okay if their child gets a illness use the same medicine in the vacination to treat it i just cant get my head around it"

Eh? There is no medicine in a vaccination.

Also, it isn't just unvaccinated children who can catch rubella. Vaccines do not offer lifelong immunity so there are many adults who are wandering around without immunity as well as vaccinated children whose vaccine didn't work. It is irresponsible to rely on other people's immunity because you just can't guarantee it. Get your immunity to rubella tested and have the vaccine if you are not immune.

DD has been around a lot of children since then who have had poxs and she has not had them again so i think she will be okay she doesnt get sick that often and i say thats due to immunisations making her immune system stronger

ahhh right - so it's all the immunisations that DS1 had that ermm............made him so prone to illnesses then

And me - I was fully vaccinated as a child too (and managed to get chickenpox twice - with a long gap in between each one - meeting lots of infected children in between whiles). I was always at the doctors with one illness or another.

DS2 is also fully vaccinated - he's hardly ever ill

DS3 - fully vaccinated (as far as it goes for nearly 4yr olds) and has been ill a couple of noticable times.....

Nope - I think that having "sick" children is quite often luck of the draw. (especially as DS1 was my only FULLY breastfed child so he should apparently have been hunky dory fit)

I work with children at a hopital setting and get my immunity checked frequently thank you :)

I agree bubbly that it is everyones responsability to ensure they are vaccinated but babies who are too young to be vaccinated are at risk because they are at risk from parents who are not immunising children and getting younger children sick who dont have that choice

and can I ask - the poster who lives in Singapore......where vaccination is compulsory - is there a distinct lack of sick children? Or do kids still get sick?

" up to a 1/3 of males who dont get immunised get reduced sperm motility and while some of this happens when they are older they still have the risk of it happening when they are children"

Do you have links to support that please alittlevoice - Are you suggesting that immunising increasing sperm motility somehow? Or did you mean to say something about males who catch mumps? sperm motility can't be affected in pre-pubescent males because they don't have sperm!

Chunkypickle, I'm sure it is! Which is why I wonder why we push it into adulthood when it is riskier by vaccinating in childhood.

Sorry - correction to earlier post:

"it isn't just unvaccinated children who can spread rubella"

Rubella is not a risk to young babies alittlevoice - only pregnant women who could and should get their own immunity checked.

Sorry, another correction - need go to go to sleep!

"Chunkypickle, I'm sure it is! Which is why I wonder why we push it into adulthood( when it is riskier) by vaccinating in childhood.

Well, funnily enough, the person in question had had mumps as a child, so this much touted 'naturally aquired immunity' didn't do much either.

The point is, that if your community is vaccinated then the situation never arises where you could be re-infected.

We could actually wipe these diseases out - just as we have with small pox, and nearly did with a couple of others before Wakefield and the newspapers caused all the outcry.

but small pox was eradicated with a massive global vaccination effort wasn't it?

You could make ALL vaccinations compulsory for EVERYONE in the UK (regardless of contra-indications) - but unless it's a global thing then they'll never disappear.

but small pox was eradicated with a massive global vaccination effort wasn't it?

You could make ALL vaccinations compulsory for EVERYONE in the UK (regardless of contra-indications) - but unless it's a global thing then they'll never disappear.

I wonder if they'll consider re-introducing the BCG programme into schools given the rise in TB in the UK.....

Yes, it was a global effort.

But as Tesco is so fond of saying, every little helps.

Whilst it's going possibly a bit far, we've managed to keep Rabies out of the UK (largely speaking)

Many Asian countries still thermal scan you as you enter and will take it very seriously if you try to enter with a temperature (SARS)

I don't think that saying that unless everyone chips in there's no point trying to vaccinate is really a good argument.

and it seems according to the information I can find on the Singapore websites that only Diphtheria and Measles are compulsory by law?? The rest are encourage but not compulsory- and they allowed the single vaccines

haven't we kept rabies out by locking up animals in quarantine for ages who aren't immunised?? I suppose we could do that with migrants into the UK.......but it could be somewhat controversial

YANBU. People who don't vaccinate their children may have good intentions, but are making decisions that are potentially terrible for their children, and are very selfish in their lack of care about herd immunity and its benefits. IMO not giving your child the MMR is like never putting them in a seatbelt while driving because of the risk that the seatbelt may hurt them in an accident.

and we might run out of space too 1/2 million coming to live here (either to study, or work) and millions coming as tourists......I suppose we could turf the aslyum seekers out of Yarls Wood and bung them in there

lol - Yes.. although we do require X-rays, and yellow-fever immunisation certificates I believe.

I'm just saying that just because a disease still exists in some other country, doesn't mean that we can't pretty much eradicate it in this one with a comprehensive vaccination scheme.

YANBU I am in total agreement.

we do - but TB is on the rise in the UK........and you can either "erradicate" or not.....I don't think there's really a "pretty much" about it. You either have or you haven't. And as some people are contr-indicated, for many vaccinations (not to mention the fact that the government seems keen to have everyone vaccinated against measles, mumps and rubella - but refuses to allow people to make the choice to have singles ) there will ALWAYS be a group that aren't vaccinated.

Even in Singapore it appears that you can obtain a letter from a health professional stating that the 2 compulsory vaccinations would be detrimental to your child's health and be allowed to not give them.

I suspect smallpox was easier to eradicate in the 60's and 70's because migration was so much less than it is today.

And new diseases will constantly be emerging,

It's just not something I can get worked up about it other people choose not to vaccinate their child. I know of one child who had measles (they were vaccinated). I knew my DS's were not at any risk from being vaccinated so did so.

I'm MUCH more irritated by people that send their chickenpox infected, or puking and snotty, hacking cough child into school/nursery for my children to catch it and bring it home.

DON'T march into nursery proudly announcing that your child has come out covered in spot, or stand bragging at the school gate that your child puked 5 times last night (but are in school regardless) - as THAT pisses me off much more than someone not vaccinating their child - usually in my experience for very good reason.

Saying there will always be a group that aren't vaccinated should't jusify not vaccinating yourself. From what I understand for herd immunity to work we need to have 95% vaccination - that could take into account immigrants and people who are unable to have the vaccine. It would require everyone who can get the vaccine to do so however.