AIBU to think non vaccination is child abuse

[alittlevoice]

There was this discussion in another thread and i thought i would make a new thread so it doesn't over taken someone elses

To me not vaccinating your child is akin to child abuse because you are putting them at undue risk of disease which is preventable due to scare mongering or from quack doctors that have long been struck off the medical register and shunned from the medical community

I hate the assumption that because there has been no reported cases it means you shouldn't vaccinate your children it's because children have been vaccinated regularly that there has not been a epidemic

leading doctors (not the quacks) have been worried for some time about the rise of mumps because of the scare mongering and children not getting vaccinated and get seriously Ill and have to be saved by modern medicine (which quack parents are always keen to take up on with there anti vaccination stance)

rubella has a incubation period as many other diseases so if your child has it and you dont know and child is near a pregnant woman and she loses her child due to non immunisation I don't understand how as a parent you'd do that to another person

So the long and short of it is why are some parents touched in the head and think they have the right for there child to possibly kill unborn children and infect younger babies too young to have the choice (and for those saying this is far fetched its as plausible of something going wrong from immunisations)

Quick run away, run away...tis getting a bit sticky.

Oh well at least I've been cheered up.

I've been having a good chuckle at the notion that vaccine damage is taken really really seriously by a system which is happy to admit that it ignores 90% of what actually goes on.

Hilarious!

Hi Leonie! Hope you and yours are well.

I'm not too sure where the concept of 'luck' comes into play with 'evidence based medicine'.

I would prefer some good old fashioned stats myself but unfortunately nobody is bothering to gather them.

Reference was made earlier to the rotavirus vaccine which was withdrawn from the market - there was evidence in the pre marketing safety trials that this vaccine caused intussusception but they thought they would give it to kids anyway to see how lucky they were.

Same with the original MMR that was introduced to the UK - there was evidence that it caused dangerous side effects in children in Canada but they thought they would see if British children were any luckier.

The vaccine that damaged my daughter had been withdrawn too - I guess there were too many unlucky children there too.

Of course the question is - what is the flaw in the system that allows dangerous vaccines to be administered to the general public in the first place?

Applauding the system for withdrawing vaccines which showed themselves to be dangerous in safety trials once they also showed themselves to be dangerous to the wider public is madness.

Just wondering what your payment was from the DWP vaccine damage unit?

The system used for vaccines is one used for all medicines, curative and prophylactic. Once you triangulate the date with large epidemiological studies you are able to make a call as to whether the vaccine is safer than not being vaccinated.

I'm very glad that the policymakers do use evidence based medicine rather than emotional decision making. It'd be like, OMG, there's one vaccine damaged child, quick STOP THE WHOLE PROGRAM. And then it'd be, OMG, there's 100 dz damaged and dead children, QUICK RESTART THE PROGRAM!!! Wow, so glad that we don't live in a country like that. We already saw what happened in S Africa with Mbeki when the govt rejected evidence based policy makers.

Stata I live in France - I do not deal with the DWP. Even if I did, the tone in which you address me with reference to my ill child would not warrant an answer.

My DD is not disabled enough to be entitled to compensation and she became ill before the age of one so she doesn't count anyway.

Our legal struggle has been simply to have her health status acknowledged.

We have done this in order to be sure that we will not be made to vaccinate DD2 - vaccination is obligatory for school entry in France.

Every school year we have to justify DD2's unvaccinated status and the fact that DD1 has not received boosters.

The school doctor has a similar attitude to yours actually - a distinct lack of empathy and a massive disrespect for parents.

Look at that -- ignoring again Stata. And being offensive to boot.

If everyone who deals with what you like to call "evidence based medicine" is just like you -- no wonder the statistics are inaccurate. You just live in a fantasy world.

Stata: any time you want to address your "no evidence" lie -- do feel free to have a pop at it.

It is good to see you back, Beachcomber (and saintly)

My daughter was damaged by vaccines that were deemed not safe enough for the western world, but still offloaded on third world countries - because, y'know, the people over there, they'll be grateful for anyhting, won't they? no need to worry about the fact that the vaccines have been withdrawn form use elsewhere in the world - they are cheaper, and that is Good Enough.

Except it isn't.

It is never good enough to use vaccines that are known to cause problems, and sit back and deny that the problems are being caused.

It is not good enough to ignore issues with the current vaccine schedule, because hey are inconvenient.

It is not good enough to ignore study after study showing that children are not reacting to these vaccines in the way they are expected to, and carry on claiming full efficacy and no damage.

It is certainly not good enough to ignore ill children, and try to claim their symptoms are "normal" and "standard" (whilst, of course, denying that the symptoms are actually anythign worth treating, or even acknowledging)

None of this is good enough, and yet it happens every single day.

And yet you coem here, Stata, and say it doesn't.

Do you really think we are all just making it up?

It is so easy for you to sit there and say "well, if your child has had a reaction, sue"

have you ever taken a nappy full of blood, undigested food and rancid diarrhoea to a doctor, asking for help with your child's quite obvious bowel issues, to be told "that seems perfectly normal. after all, there is autism at play here". no further investigation (despite obvious pain and distress). subject closed. end of.

the problems are not just ignored, they are denied.

and you say we should spend our time on legal cases, rather than on our children. if we don't help them, who will?

Again LMAO at decisions taken using evidence based medicine.

Why do you think the Urabe strain MMR was introduced in the UK when it had been shown (through the bias of evidence based medicine) to be unsafe in Canada?

This vaccine was withdrawn in Canada in 1997 because it was unsafe and yet it was introduced into the UK in 1998 with the knowledge that it was unsafe.

How do you think the parents of the children in the UK damaged by that vaccine feel knowing that?

Hello silverfrog. Thank you - nice to see you too!

To pick up on your point - the vaccine that was offloaded from Canada to UK children, then went on to be offloaded onto children in Latin America.

It messed up the health of Canadian and British children but hey the Brazilians should just be thankful that they got a chance to see if their children were any 'luckier' (they weren't the vaccine was withdrawn there too).

You just gotta love that evidence based medicine!

What interests me, actually, is that you have had nothing (or nothing much anyway) to sya about the links saintly gave you last night.

not a thing.
no discussion; precious little acknowledgement.

did you not find any of it interesting?

do you not think that the warning flags it (all) raises are worth taking notice of?

you want this to be too black and white, and it will never be that.

I do not understand why you think what I, and others on this thread with a similar outlook, want (namely more choice in vaccines - both amount, schedule and combinations), and better safety trials, along with an acknowledgement of the actual risks, and of the damage that occurs - I don't understand why you think this is such a bad thing?

yep, Beach - you gotta just love it!

starlight, leonie, beachcomber and others. I wish I could be as on the ball as you all are. You are expressing ideas I have never been able to put into words. It all just seemed too overwhelming. I always felt so alone with it all. It's good to know that there are people like you out there.
I think my son has been 'luckier' than your dc's, still ,it stinks.

Yes it really is good to see you. Silver and Leonie and bubbly have kept the side up.. there've been a few threads.

Hope all is well.

Hello all.

I don't have the energy to get really involved in these threads any more so thanks to those who do.

I think the thing that did for me was finding out the the French government knew that the vaccine my DD received wasn't safe. They were dragging their heels about withdrawing it due to the financial implications. Had she been born a few months later she wouldn't have received it.

I was told ds had the toddler runs. It wasn't the runs, I know this because he had cloth nappies and I had the pleasure of emptying them out to be soaked .
when the nappies were done with. I could see what was in the toilet, well food mostly, recognisable food, amongst the liquid effluent around it. But nothing that ever looked like normal poo
Ds had his mmr in '99, just in time for the crap vacc banned in canada then. Oh what a lucky boy he is.

'huge efforts' you say. Why then do I personally know - in real life not hairy handed truck drivers- three children who have ended up in hdu or icu in the week following mmr who have not been vaccinated. Why were their parents told without any investigation that 'it's definitely not the vaccination'. It might not have been but you can't pick and choose when you are going to investigate and when you are not if you want people to trust you. No alternative explanation was given for these out of the blue seizures that resulted in hospital admission. They were not febrile. Actually a friend was told her son had a febrile convulsion when he didn't even have a temperature. What a clever boy.

None of these children had had previous seizures all were showing no signs of developmental delay and now are delayed (in 2 cases severely). I know other less extreme cases, but if the powers that be won't even investigate when your child ends up in hdu or icu then other reactions have no chance of being picked up.

Add in my internet friends and I have more cases.

It's not what I would call huge efforts. Playing with spss whilst ignoring sick chikdren in from of you. Not the best way to find out what's going on unless you really don't want to know.

Perhaps I should take strata's advice and sue the French government!

We have done the taking nappy full of blood stained mucus and undigested foods to the gastroenterologist too. We also have unexplained convulsions.

Oh flippin you know all about the brand effect then. :(

Oh and above should say not been INVESTIGATED - shoukdn't mums net whilst trying to recover lost data files (sob)

I havent given my 18 month old her mmr jab because I dont feel 100percent sure after all the scarey stories about it.I cant see why they cant give 3 they did when I had them all those years ago.

Flipping, I think beachcomber made a mistake earlier - the Urabe strain mmr vaccine was withdrawn in the UK in 1992 so your son would gave received the 'safer' mmr2. Hth :)