AIBU to think non vaccination is child abuse

[alittlevoice]

There was this discussion in another thread and i thought i would make a new thread so it doesn't over taken someone elses

To me not vaccinating your child is akin to child abuse because you are putting them at undue risk of disease which is preventable due to scare mongering or from quack doctors that have long been struck off the medical register and shunned from the medical community

I hate the assumption that because there has been no reported cases it means you shouldn't vaccinate your children it's because children have been vaccinated regularly that there has not been a epidemic

leading doctors (not the quacks) have been worried for some time about the rise of mumps because of the scare mongering and children not getting vaccinated and get seriously Ill and have to be saved by modern medicine (which quack parents are always keen to take up on with there anti vaccination stance)

rubella has a incubation period as many other diseases so if your child has it and you dont know and child is near a pregnant woman and she loses her child due to non immunisation I don't understand how as a parent you'd do that to another person

So the long and short of it is why are some parents touched in the head and think they have the right for there child to possibly kill unborn children and infect younger babies too young to have the choice (and for those saying this is far fetched its as plausible of something going wrong from immunisations)

• ...should my decision cause any HARM to my children or I.

what if it harms other peoples kids - say those under 1 who can't get MMR or those with genuine reasons why they can't have it?

Not being shitty just asking

Oh hymie. You are being precious. I disagree with you and you cry " harpy time"
Did you drag that out of your Big Book of Random Insults.

You said that not conforming with advice should make you liable for hospital costs. If the analogy is stupid, it is your analogy.

You equate non vaccination with being irresponsible and accountable.
I think that is nonsense. My dds school, my dds gp and her consultant all agree. Plus I am extremely pro active re any signs of illness/ fever/ rash. I wish half the parents producing dcs with feverish faces or hacking coughs were half so.

gordy, I thought I'd covered the question "what if it harms other people's kids?" by saying clearly that mine is an entirely selfish decision made purely for the benefit of my children. I'm not being funny in my response any more than you are in asking a perfectly valid question.

My priority is to my children. I'm not prepared to put alien substances in my children for the benefit of other people.

Bluntly I would rather risk hurting someone else's children than my own, just as I would rather get my own children out of a burning building than prioritise someone else's children. I have a responsibility to my children first and foremost.

"I wish there was a vaccination to prevent moral illiteracy. then we wouldn't have threads like this inflicted on us."

Only if we chose to have the vaccination or give it to our children, smallwhitecat.

Not abuse no just a personal decision and im sure people who don't might think the same about vaccinations. I think it is utterly crap how ever that these 'liberals' rely on other people doing something they find abhorrent to keep there children safe.

What if your child has nits and you don't buy a nit comb. That's child abuse!

don't have kids young enough for this to be an issue for me but read recently that health big wigs thinking of adding another two,can't remember which to the mmr,I think that might be a bit much for such young children to cope with and it has always puzzled me why give boys rubella and give girls mumps they could have split it into boy and girl vaccines but maybe I have got that bit wrong.Little pink and blue vials so nurses know the difference.

The nit comparison is a good one.

If the school asked everyone in the class to look over the weekend so that they cleared the school of them itch buggers, would you refuse on the grounds that a dose of nits is healthy, part of nature, makes you stronger in the long run, you can decide when your 18 whether you want to comb them out or do you take responsibility and despite it being time consuming, children complain, etc look for them and deal with them in order to make school a nicer place?

Surly even a bad case of nits wouldn't kill you though?

Rare reaction to a spot gone septic?
Reaction to tree tea oil?
Risk of drowning in bath?

All rare but actually possible surely just like the rarity reaction factor with immunisations.

I have read two pages and do t have time to read rest but wanted to say if not been said already. The incubation period is not the same as the infectious period. Chicken pox is infectious for approximate 48 hrs BEFORE the first spot till ALL spots are crusted over. But the incubation period is up to 21 days. (The period the virus is using your body as a host to multiply) so the two are not the same at all.

PS I'm Pro vaccine as my mil lost a baby to rubella after it was born with severe disabilities and died after 2 days. Wouldn't wish that on anyone!!!

I just massivly miss read the thread title, - skim reading = VACATION!

No, that would not be child abuse....parent abuse? YES!

That's sad Booand, although Mum suppoorts our stance even though she also lost a baby to rubella (well, had to have a termination: her previous 4 had been stillborn so same pain level I guess).

She's seen what happened to her Grandkids and the battles we have had.

Manatee - Go and ask someone in Egypt or Libya if they think access to the internet is a human right.

Mama - Doctors certainly do not just stand aside and let JW children who need blood tranfusions die. 5 minutes googling would show you that it's a very complex issue that frequently involves the courts.

OP YABU. We live in a free world, where we have CHOICE. Why should we all be forced to vaccinate our DC because YOU think we should.

FYI Doctors do not 'worry' about DC catching measles. It's not always about protection from illnesses - sometimes its about profits for drug companies and a fee per vaccination for the Docs..

Who the hell are you to tell me that if I don't vaccinate my DC they may kill someone - get off your high horse.

AND I'm sure the mothers who took their very healthy DC in for a vaccination and came out with an autistic DC don't think it's all nonsense. Just because the Doc responsible for the scare has been discredited, doesn't mean it's never happened.

Excellent posts Valhalla

I vaccinated my kids for purely selfish reasons too because I was prepared to take the small risk of vaccine damage in order to dramatically lessen the risk of my kids contracting fatal diseases.
I am more than happy to put well tested chemicals into my kids for their benefit.
And Vallhala I presume you would be against vaccines containing animal products regardless so I'm not surprised that you're happy to reassure yourself with the anti-vac bs.

Valhalla agree absolutely. :)

Oh, and I took a healthy 4 month old DD1 for vaccination and spent the night in hospital with her wondering if she was going to live. She subsequently developed asthma, eczema and a whole host of allergies, which she is still battling with at 15. She may have got those in any case, who can say.

But to have vaccinated DD2 and risked putting her through what DD1 went through just so I could provide herd immunity for other children - now that would have been what was tountamount to abuse in my eyes.

Children in the past died in their hundreds of thousands from things like diphtheria, polio, whooping cough, measles etc. Why on EARTH would any responsible parent not want to protect their child against these horrors?? The argument for herd immunity is selfish and short sighted. I have seen a tiny child, in this country with the measles because his silly, misguided (and very well educated) parents were worried about the possible side effects. This child is alive but will never live independently. Think carefully people - we were very fortunate to be born in the 20th Century.

Side effects of the vaccine, obviously...

OP I am a health visitor and even I think YABU. The papers have been full of very emotive stoies over the past few years and although I don't think the scares are right I recognise that we are all different and that maybe, just maybe some cildren ARE affected by vaccine.

It's a personal choice and nobody chooses NOT to have their child vaccinated in a sub-conscious way -it's usually a decison which is thought about and agonized over.

I chose to vaccinate m child but I am not immune to the scare stories either and even with all the research to hand (which convinced me that for 99.9% of children they are safe) it was not an easy decision.

I would never condemn a parent for NOT vacinating provided they had received all the info and done their own research before coming to a conscious decison NOT to go ahead. Free choce at the end of the day.

Buttonmooncup. to say "And Vallhala I presume you would be against vaccines containing animal products regardless so I'm not surprised that you're happy to reassure yourself with the anti-vac bs." is a cheap shot. It's also insulting and wholly inaccurate.

I haven't quoted "anti-vac" bullshit. I haven't expressed support of Wakefield, I haven't referred to a link between Autism and MMR... I have merely said that the chances of my children or I contracting the illnesses which are covered by the popular vaccines are small and the chances of them becoming seriously and permanently damaged or killed as a result even smaller still. I do not wish to give my children (or myself) vaccinations which could immediately put them at risk of harm when they are currently healthy and have been for 14 and nearly 16 years respectively, nor do I wish to do that to myself. I have lived 46 years without the need for vaccination and I see no need for it now. In anotherwords, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

That is NOT the same as being "happy to reassure yourself with the anti-vac b/s." because vaccines contain animal products and I resent the implication that I am using my decision not to vaccinate for the reasons given both in this post and previously as an excuse to demonstrate my animal welfare. The two are unconnected.