in thinking jesus can NOT cure homosexuality as it is NOT an illness

[thefinerthingsinlife]

christian lady has written a book claiming jesus can cure homosexuality

I'm not getting into the debate of wether there is a God/Jesus etc. It just this has really mad me angry, how can you cure something that is NOT an illness. I find this extremely insulting and judgemental.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf:

No worries - I'm just a boring pedant!

I had a very brief look at son of God by angela tilby and there was mention of Jesus. or chrestus by Sutonian and also by Tactitus who was a Roman Historian. I haven't got time to read the book again at the moment but that is where i was coming from.

also he was a Jewish peasant so he would not exactly be high priority but nevertheless he is mentioned. maybe my phrasing wasn't brilliant last night.

Also this may be contraversial as well but just to highlight where christians may come from on the homosexual and lesbian thing from the New International Version

1 Corinthians chap 9, v6

Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulters nor male prostitues nor homosexual offenders etc etc will inherit the earth.

there is also a verse in Romans 1 26 about women talking of natural and unatural relations. in romans 27 it talks about men committing indecent acts with other men etc.

In leviticus 18.22 which has already been mentioned again a similar flavour.

I don't know as i am a straight hetrosexual. I am not trying to be judgemental just putting in biblical quotes as to why this women may have this opinion.

also i don't think God is overly keen on sex outside of marriage which is something alot of christians struggle with myself included

It should be noted that Islam isn't exactly pro homosexuality either.

Although I believe in God I do not believe that 'he' us judgemental in any way which is why I struggle with the bible that was written by men who put their own interpretation into things to control people

Just look at the kind of people Jesus hung around with! He didn't judge either.

Straight or gay it doesn't matter as long as you are happy and have consensual relationships etc

I feel so bad for gay people who have to put up with stupid ignorant idiots just because they like the same sex!

This is the problem. Jesus is a first name (and a very common one in first century Judaea). Christus/Messiah is a politico-religious title and of course there have been several of them.

I don't deny that a man called Jesus of Nazareth existed but I don't accept the later Christology of Paul regarding the soteriological significance of this man's death.

As for Corinthians and Romans, these were only Paul's opinions and it has been noted that Paul was a decidedly odd character, possibly bi-polar, certainly rather gynophobic, and with a somewhat inflated view of his opinions.

As for Leviticus, well like all those weird OT Laws you don't need to ban something if nobody is doing it! So maybe those early Hebrews were engaging in sodomy and zoophilia left right and centre!!!

Oh curing people of homosexuality is big business state side. You have all these 'ex-gay' ministries, and ex-ex-gay minstries made up of former ex gay ministry success stories who have realised that being gay is just a part of who they are.

IMO it is the ex-gay ministries that are an abomination. They teach young men and women to despise themselves and to see a perfectly natural human behaviour as a sickness that must be scourged from the body.

?soteriology - The study or doctrine of salvation

To save everyone else having to look it up (never come across it before, and I used to be a christian!)

Ah JohannaM you are bringing back memories of my Religious Studies A Level! (in a good way - I loved it - and by coincidence I was taught by a gay male teacher who was a brilliant teacher)

Can I ask how you know all this? I consider myself a devout atheist but have always enjoyed learning about Christian theology and even collect iconography but have not studied any of this for years. What I do remember is just how much the early church fathers hated women and sex (was it Jerome or Tertullian who called women the gateway to hell?) They always struck me as very strange scared little men who had found a hierarchy in which they could wield some power and were clinging onto it ferociously.

Your post about Paul being bipolar reminded me of this - are you a fan JohannaM ?

TKE, SF, and TS.
Thanks for the comments - yes I thoroughly enjoy Jesus and Mo every month in the Freethinker! However, this is the worrying stuff (a link from your link, as t'were)!

Yes Tertullian was a particularly nasty little gynophobe - apparently women also have no souls so therefore we're not strictly human either!!

Now Jerome of course had a little coterie of high born ladies that admired him and Paula in particular seems to have been a favourite!!

LOTM - if you are going to take Leviticus seriously, and insist Jesus didn't say 'start again', then you also have to to have anyone who works on Sunday put to death (Exodus). And a whole lot of other stuff is banned, as well. West Wing did a great rant on this: here

Edam- I suggest you re-read my posts, and you'll see that I just copied 3 explanations from 3 different websites, none of which are MY OWN OPINION.

And I've seen that clip from hundreds of other threads. Exciting stuff.

I think the important thing to remember here is, that despite, millions of Christians believing that the eponymous founder of their religion was Jesus of Nazareth, the fact is that this whole religion is based on the (later) ideas of Paul of Tarsus.

Jesus of Nazareth lived and died an observant Jew. His teachings were not for the Gentiles. He was preaching to the Jews and he was not the only wandering preacher and wonder worker around at this period. He came from a peasant background and from Galilee, a separate client kingdom and noted for being a hotbed of zealotry. His arrival in Judaea (then under the control of Rome) at the head of a group of peasants who saw him as the Messiah, come to bring the land of Israel back to a theocratic state with himself as its King, is what resulted in his execution by the Roman Governor of Judaea.

I should also add, that it has been discussed that the invented character of Jesus Barabbas may well have been the real man, Jesus of Nazareth.

Mark and Luke both mention an uprising, Mathew refers to this character as a "notorious prisoner" and John uses the Greek word lestes (a bandit) to describe him. This word is also used by Josephus when referring to the Zealots whom he saw as troublemakers stirring up people to futile acts of rebellion.

Not an illness, just a run-of-the-mill sin.

Johanna what you say is correct but Jesus did teach and perform miracles too. He did also converse with gentiles. For instance the women who talks about the dogs taking food from the table. haven't got scripture handy.

It all depends on what you believe.

Lenin- Why is it of interest?

alemci: Sorry but I don't agree. People believe that he performed miracles. There is a big difference between belief and fact.

Mathew 15:21-28. Here is what Brandon says about those verses.

"Long familiarity with this story, together with the traditional gentleness of Jesus, tends to obscure the shocking intolerance of the saying. As the words are uttered by Jesus, a Jew, the ?children? to whom he refers are Jews and their right to be ?fed? precedes all other needs and considerations. But this brutal assertion of Jewish privilege is not enough: the Gentiles are ?dogs? to whom it was unfitting to cast the children?s food. Jesus is represented as relenting from this attitude of extreme racial intolerance only when the Gentile woman, humbly accepting for herself and her little daughter the designation of ?dogs?, renews her request for the ?crumbs? of the children?s food fallen from the table."

[SGF Brandon, Jesus and the Zealots p 172]

Well here goes:

I don't believe people are "born" gay, I believe it is a social and perhaps sub concious decision.

I believe humans are to reproduce with one another, and as two women alone/two men alone cannot produce a child unassisted then perhaps this wasn't the way God intended. Which is fine, especially if you don't believe in God.

I don't hate gays nor am I homophobic, I just believe reproductively it doesn't work. It doesn't work for heterosexual people sometimes, so perhaps they are deigned to not have children. I sadly, do not have the answers.

Do I think that Jesus can cure homosexuality?

I believe that God answers prayer, and if this was a prayer that was asked, seriously by the person who was asking, then I believe that prayers can be answered, yes.

Do I think that money is being made by people "curing" in the name of Jesus fraudulently?

Yes I do.

Lenin - I like your posts but I think you know what Lady is saying and are being a teensy weensy bit disingenuous.

Yes, of course gay people can and do reproduce. But two women cannot produce offspring together which is the biological offspring of both of them. Likewise two men.

You need an egg and a sperm to make a baby and all the gay rights in all the world will not change the fact that women do not produce sperm and men do not produce eggs.

I'm not saying I agree with Lady but let's face facts about the biology here!