in thinking jesus can NOT cure homosexuality as it is NOT an illness

[thefinerthingsinlife]

christian lady has written a book claiming jesus can cure homosexuality

I'm not getting into the debate of wether there is a God/Jesus etc. It just this has really mad me angry, how can you cure something that is NOT an illness. I find this extremely insulting and judgemental.

LOTM rights always exist within social boundaries, so you can't put those boundaries aside.

TCNY, part of what makes an individual adaptive and successful in evolutionary terms is having the genetic capacity to adapt to a range of environments. So an individual expressing adaptive behaviour like homosexuality could well have expressed different behaviour if they had been born into a different situation.

The fact that something is natural does not mean that the genes of that person could only be expressed in that way.

Hmmm, let me see if I can answer this correctly;

I believe that unrepentant sinners will not go to Heaven.

I believe that no sin is worse than any other. (Lying is equal to homosexuality etc) Sin has no measure, according to the Word.

I believe that Jesus is our gate to God, and the only way to forgiveness is to ask for it through Jesus.

I don't believe practising Christians who are homosexual will go to Heaven.

The difference between sins is not the punishment but the effect on your life...if I lie to get out of work for example, and I know this to be wrong, I can ask forgiveness, but because homosexuality is a "life style" and not a one off incident, I think it is harder to approach.

I have no problem with homosexuals, and have several friends who are gay. I do not approve of their lifestyle anymore than they approve of mine. I love the person, and I don't judge them when I myself am not sin free (no one is apart from Jesus). I just have the reassurance that Jesus is a true part of my life and I can ask for forgiveness and avoid committing the same sin again and again...when one believes homosexuality is from birth, it is obviously harder to overcome.

Do I think God hates gays? No. Do I think he approves of homosexuality? No. Do I believe that homosexuality is worse than any other sin? No.

This is a serious question. How do people manage to be happy in heaven when they know that lots of other people are unhappy in hell?

SwallowedaFly/MillyR - The problem with engaging with the Nature/Genetics argument and the idea that homosexual behaviours and identities are more valid than faith ones then what you are saying is that people of faith are just being difficult, but that the poor old gays just can't help themselves.

I don't think that is the positions either of you really want to take up.

Swallowed- I haven't and don't say offensive things to anyone mainly (I have the odd slip).

The only thing I said on this thread was that 2 men and 2 women without intrusion cannot make a baby. That may be offensive, but it is also basic biology.

I don't make it my business to upset people (again, I have the odd slip) but I do think it is important than people are entitled think and believe as they choose-where they say it is relevant, but before we know it, protesting will be taken away from us...or the right the protest in the geographical areas where it matters.

but that the poor old gays just can't help themselves.

er, no, to say that you'd actually have to also believe there was something wrong with being a homosexual, that there was something that needed 'helping'. You wouldn't say 'the black man can't help his colour', would you?

Milly- In Revelation, God throws "death" into the lake of fire. Heaven isn't one big party and outside in the acid rain are people peering through the windows. God gives everyone a chance, and it says when Jesus returns he will tell everyone the truth. It is only then if people still refuse to listen that Hell will be opened.

I won't preach anymore. Promise.

Grimma no-because a black man is born black. Some Christians, myself included, don't believe a homosexual is born homosexual.

TCNY, I'm not making that argument. I am saying that homosexuality is adaptive. Running away from a tidal wave is adaptive - it doesn't require a specific tidal wave gene.

I have no idea if believing in God is adaptive or not.

Either way, I hope that human morality has a bit more complexity to it than just deciding what is and is not natural.

Anyway, I can suspect someone's belief in God without having to respect their homophobia even though some Christians are homophobes. Just like I can respect someone's sexuality even though a lot of lesbians own cats and I am allergic to cats. Neither the cats or the homophobia are really central to the issue of God.

"Respect their belief in God" not suspect!

Sorry.

Grimma - I MIGHT have been expressing myself from the viewpoint of someone who wanted to put a negative spin on things when I said " people of faith are just being difficult" as well.

LOTM, but that still means somebody will go to hell. I could not be happy in heaven if I knew others were going to suffer for eternity.

LOTM - well for now we'll have to agree to differ on that. And maybe sometime in the future you'll read some of science which refutes your belief. This may make no difference to your belief that homosexuality is wrong.

Grimma, you want to disagree that a black person is born black but being born homosexual is yet to be proven? OK, that's ok.

MillyR if you want to PM me perhaps I can explain, but I'm not "Bible bashing" on this thread as its irrelevant to the topic. (Jesus loves you by the way )

I wasn't seeing it as bible bashing. But it is perhaps a question I should ask in the religion section.

Grimma/swallowedaFly/MillyR - The thing is everyone can save themselves a LOT of effort if instead of discussing nature v nurture one just looks at these things on a moral level when someone says Homosexuality is wrong and keep saying "So What?" to it's not natural/adaptive/genetic etc. because that way you much more quickly get to:-

"Why do you think it's wrong?"
"because God says so."
"Oh well, there's no point in talking to you about this any longer."

TCNY, yes that does about sum it up.

swallowed - yes. If you look at the example of the USA, you can see that a properly constituted secular society is a good way to preserve religious freedoms. No discrimination for or against any.

TNCY It usually does end up there.