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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Could this DC be indicating DV?

92 replies

helpfulparenting · 21/02/2011 15:19

HI, I've been here for a year but have namechanged for this.

I am really unsure what to do and am looking for opinions and advice.

My friend has 2 DC's under 8 yo. She works F/T as does her DH. He has always been charming and a very good Dad from what I've seen.

Her DC's are pretty disrespectful of her, younger one especially, and tantrum on NO, or when expectations of behavior are placed on them. They also can't deal with the thought someone feels badly of them. EG they can/will be mean/snatch but always project it onto the other child. EG if asked to say sorry, other child never says sorry, always hurts them etc folowed by major breakdown which detracts from orignal problem. Or do not tidy up as other child never does at theirs/ they didn't make the mess etc They are usually not forced or all hell breaks loose.

My friend and I parent differently and mainly this isn't a problem. I have learnt aswell be confident in my own parenting and when they are loudly dissing another child, including DS, that is more their insecurity than the other child being at fault.

Friend is often very tired and tearful and on the occasions her DC's have made her cry they seem quite proud of this.

Like the rest of us she will teach her DC's things to say in situations (mainly childhood arguments) but the difference is she absolves them of blame.

Because of the reasons above I chose situations where and when we meet and often engineer situations where her DC's have no expectations placed upon them. Yes I know this doesn't help but I love my friend and hate seeing her struggle.

Her youngest has also developed extreme anxiety, although I think much of it is behaviour and is attending a nurture type group at school, apparently though she won't 'open up'.

SO: the other day I had invited them over for dinner and did a buffet to be ate on a picnic mat in lounge so there was no pressure, and not really much the DC's could/ couldn't do to cause tension.

As we were eating the youngest started holding her head in her hands saying 'This is what Daddy does to mummy, he's going to put her head through the wall, and Mummy cried'. My friend just said 'Oh don't be so silly'. Her discomfort made me feel that way and I didn't feel I could bring it up again with the DC's in the same building.

Now I can't help wondering

  1. How a 5yo would be able make this up
  2. Igf made up - Why?
  3. Could the disrespect and friends real low confidence be becuase there is some level of DV going on - ie DC's are copying bevaviour.

There is lots more but to keep this anon I have given as much detail with as little ID info as I can.

Please Help Me. Sad

OP posts:
Seabright · 21/02/2011 15:22

It sounds too specific to be made up, but I have no experience of this.

Hope someone comes along soon who is more use.

BooyFuckingHoo · 21/02/2011 15:25

yes that does seem very specific, especially the fact that the child was showing you exactly what way daddy held mummy, as if he had seen it.

LaWeasel · 21/02/2011 15:34

If the youngest is at school tell the school.

They will have a child protection officer who will know if anything else strange has been reported/noted by teachers etc. They have been trained to both assess and deal with this kind of thing and won't jump straight to involving SS (which seems to be a worry of a lot of people in thsi situations).

I don't if child is making it up or not either. That's why I would report to someone with more experience.

KazBarTFG · 21/02/2011 15:34

What a horrible situation you find yourself in, I have no experience of this but I also agree it does sound too specific.

You need to bring this up with your friend, and if it does turn out to be DV then I would suggest not ploughing in with "leave him" advice as soon as, just be there to support and talk her through it initially....

You seem a very nice and caring friend, sorry that you're worried about her.

KazBarTFG · 21/02/2011 15:36

"sorry that you're worried about her"

Strike that - I'm not sorry that you're worried about her, I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situatio where you have to worry for her at all IYSWIM.. Confused

OliveMalay · 21/02/2011 15:39

I do think you should bring it up with your friend. Ask her if everything is OK.

squeakytoy · 21/02/2011 15:40

It does sound very iffy.

Its possible that the child has seen her parents play fighting, but I too would be worried that it is more serious than that.

I would talk to your friend first, on her own, when there are no children around. Tell her you will support her whatever it is, and you wont say anything to her husband etc, if she asks you not to.

If she feels you will tell someone else, and she isnt ready for it to all come out yet, she may clam up and say nothing. Be gentle and she may open up to you if something is going on.

Chaotica · 21/02/2011 15:42

I agree this sounds worrying. I second talking to the school CPO.

ValiumSandwich · 21/02/2011 15:44

I don't know. I was in an abusive relationship and my child seemed to blcok out anything awful. So I really don't know. It sounds so horrible though. I think if the mum had been genuinely shocked as to why her child said that you'd have known, but she wasn't so much shocked as awkward and embarrassed. Doesn't look good.

If you do try to get your friend to talk to you, don't IMMEDIATELY tell her 'oh you must leave' becaues knowing that that's what people would say/think is precisely what stopped me confiding in anybody. Couldn't tell anybody until I was ready to leave.

KazBarTFG · 21/02/2011 15:44

I wouldn't suggest calling the school unless you've had a word with your friend though.

Sarsaparilllla · 21/02/2011 15:46

I would talk to your friend, just say to her that what her DC said bothered you and you're worried about her, talk to her on her own first rather than getting anyone else involved

Rannaldini · 21/02/2011 15:50

I would suggest speaking to the school about it no matter what you friend might say.

Women in abusive relationships fail to acknowledge the damage they do to their children by remaining. There are many reasons for this but the results are the same.

If you speak to her about it she will either lie to you or tell you the truth but BEG you not to tell anyone
Speak to the school or SS and have someone investigate the matter properly
She may need help to work through her situation and they are better placed to help that you

oldwomaninashoe · 21/02/2011 15:52

This is difficult my exDH was very violent towards me and I would have been both mortified and embarassed if anyone knew about it when we were together.

It is difficult to explain (unless you have "been" there)but you know deep down you shouldn't be putting up with this but you do for a myriad of reasons. I hope she will have her own lightbulb moment and decide enough is enough. Just be there for her and her children, because they are bound to need your support sometime.

Don't takle the subject with her, if she is persuaded to leave him before she has had "enough" she will inevitably be persuaded to return.

squeakytoy · 21/02/2011 15:53

Speaking to the school without any real proof is not the way to go about it. The woman will feel she has lost a friend and someone she could trust.

KazBarTFG · 21/02/2011 15:53

take Rannaldin's advice

but dont expect her to be a friend for much longer...

perhaps when she is out of the alleged DV situation she will thank you.

But she won't thank you for getting other people to sniff around her business at this point, even though it could be for her own good.

ManateeEquineOhara · 21/02/2011 15:54

It does sound worrying. Maybe talk to women's aid, they would be the best place to start.

Rannaldini · 21/02/2011 15:58

The difficulty is that those children have no one to speak for them

whilst the mother decides if she can leave him they have to experience life in a family filled with explosive violence

the damage that they are doing to their children will live with them forever.

Tell the school or social services what you know and ask that they look into it. You are doing her and her children a favour that she may never thank you for but a favour none the less

ManateeEquineOhara · 21/02/2011 16:01

I think women's aid would be much better for the OP to talk to than the school or even SS, as they have the most specific experience and can further advise on what is best for the OP to do under her circumstances.

ValiumSandwich · 21/02/2011 16:02

Having been in a violent relationship I think that the only person I would have 'taken' this from (alerting the school, gp, social services) would have been somebody who was genuinely prepared to put me and my kids up until we sorted out something else, how ever long it took.

Anybody else I would have just thought, they don't get it, I've nowhere to go and no money when I get there, and I would have been angry, and very, very, very ashamed.

KnittedBreast · 21/02/2011 16:03

it might not be what it seems....my son kept telling me that i beat him...i was like what the fuck? i felt sick to my stomach, eventually i asked him about it.

turned out he was refering to me "beating" him when we played board games...

still shit me up though. you cant control what children will say and sometimes it comes out really really wrong. imagine if my son had said that to teachers at school?

Original poster
helpfulparenting · 21/02/2011 16:03

She won't leave. I know that. She has said her worst fear is him going, something happening to him. That is why I'm genuinly Shock that there could possibly be any sort of DV. And I wouldn't tell her to leave, thats got to be her decision. I'm a LP though and she's always said she just couldn't do it. Although I point out the positives its not that bad.

She is only just beginning to indicate, and sometimes say, that she is finding her DC's behaviour difficult. She just laughs nervously when they blatenly ignore her and do whats she's asked them not too.

The lines of communication with regards to child rearing are opening up, we can talk for England about things so our DC's are the last thing we discuss except passing anecdotes of things they've done. We are best friends foremost and 2 mums second iyswim? Conversation is very open, sex, finances etc.

How can I approach her about this? I don't want to close doors that are just opening.

And I really in 100 years cannot imagine this happening and don't want to accuse her DH of something he didn't and wouldn't do in a million years.

OP posts:
ValiumSandwich · 21/02/2011 16:07

helpful, leave it for a while, i think if you DON'T bring it up (and there is something to bring up) she will understand that you don't want to embarrass her, that you respect her way of seeign things, ...

she'll be more likely to talk to you if you don't try to bring it up for a while.

Rannaldini · 21/02/2011 16:09

dv always very secretive
same as violence toward children

speak to ss or the school. they will have experience of how to at least monitor the children closely and perhaps pick up on any escalation of their bad behaviour
also keep an eye on any knocks the children might have or start to get

squeakytoy · 21/02/2011 16:10

It really could be that her parents have been playfighting and there is nothing more to it than that.

Hopefully that is all it is too.

ThePosieParker · 21/02/2011 16:13

I would honestly tell the school, they will be able to judge whether or not a child would make this up, I think not, and they will have noticed any other behaviour indicative of DV.