to think that prisoners are people and citizens and SHOULD have the vote? And if we, as a nation, refuse to let them (illegally -hmmmmm) then WE are in the wrong?

[harpsichordcarrier]

Really, I am genuinely interested.... Why should committing a crime (ANY crime) take away your human rights?

YANBU.

You are a brave lady, harpsichord .

Is it a human right to vote?

agree YANBU

I agree. I don't think the best way to get people to re-engage with society is to disenfranchise with them.

Wouldn't the more crucial point be to wonder why they are being deprived of their liberty? And why would they be any more entitled to a vote than they would be freedom?

I don't know.

I guess I just think that if someone has done something bad enough to not be considered worthy of contributing to society, that perhaps voting is a right they deserve to lose. I'm not 100% certain where I land on this tbh.

Though depriving someone of their human rights as a collective, and depriving them of their vote specifically are really two distinct issues....which one are you interested in?

Hmm...because by comitting a crime against society you forfeited a right to be a part of said society and enjoy the same rights for the time of the sentence?

I agree too but am not sufficiently eloquent or educated to put into words why I think that. Or why I disagree with the alternative, if that makes sense?

Is it a human right to vote? - yes I would say so, and one for which many have fought and died over the centuries and right now in the Middle East.
I honestly don't understand this. I am ready to hear some logical arguments i.e. nothing about how murderers have given up their rights to be treated humanely

I agree.

I mean, why even lock them up in the first place, seeing as we want them to re-engage with society?

Thats the bit I can't do, put forward a logical argument. Its just a gut feeling.

its a tricky one!

I think the argument goes that if someone shows a complete disregard for society and their fellow human beings human rights (ie rapists and muderers) then we should not be affording them human rights iyswim?!

I don't agree - they have chosen to break the law, and as such have been removed from normal society so have lost their rights. Their choice.

I would say your analogy, OP, about murderers, is actually entirely logical. I'm not sure that I agree with it, but it's certainly not illogical to think that way.

nothing about how murderers have given up their rights to be treated humanely

How is that not a logical argument?

YANBU

I'm a bit ambivalent, TBH, but intellectually I feel that the right to vote is linked to the right to have influence on your life, and therefore should never e taken away. If you can't advocate for yourself then that is losing a Human Right.

Though depriving someone of their human rights as a collective, and depriving them of their vote specifically are really two distinct issues....which one are you interested in? - hmmm well, both and either I guess. At the moment they lose their (human) right to vote collectively so I guess that's the place to start.

Hmm...because by comitting a crime against society you forfeited a right to be a part of said society and enjoy the same rights for the time of the sentence? - but they are part of society aren't they? I mean we still have a responsibility for them, collectively and they still have a responsibility to their fellow citizens.
I don't see prison as a home for outcasts, those who aren't part of society. Shouldn't it be somewhere to learn to be PART of society?
If we specifically EXCLUDE them from our society, then how can we expect them to rejoin it when they are released....

And scum like murderers should be treated humanely because......... ?

YABVU

But if they have done something so bad that we as a society have 'locked them away' to punish them, why should they vote and have a say for the time they are in prison?
Surely that goes hand in hand with not engaging with the outside world?

nothing about how murderers have given up their rights to be treated humanely

How is that not a logical argument?

It's illogical because only a VERY VERY small minority of prisoners are murderers... so arguments that apply to murderers can't be applied to ALL prisoners and aren't in any way logical to defend the idea of depriving thieves, dangerous drivers, fraudsters, those in possession of drugs, and all the other myriad imprisonable crimes

YABU

I agree with you, they should have the right to vote.

Daphne - don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your anger. But prisons exist, these people are alive, and as long as they are alive then they should be treated humanely. Otherwise what are you left with? - not a country I'd like to live in.

Oooh, here's a good idea....

lets take all of those wankers guilty of race hatred crimes, give them the vote, and watch the BNP start getting real results at the polls.

Mm-hmmm.

Or maybe not.