to consider the dreaded controlled crying?

[wahwahwahwahwahwah]

DS is 5 months old. He has been sleeping well up til recently (not through the night as he is BF so wakes up to feed)

When he gets tired he screams and screams and screams. No amount of cuddling will calm him down but there is nothing obviously wrong. He also does this in the night when he wakes up, screaming (not just crying but screaming) for hours at a time.

Me and DH are going crazy. Would WBU to try controlled crying? Does anyone have any advice?

:(

felicity - hes on three meals a day! :)

Controlled crying was never for me either - i used to feel it was cruel and unkind...

Then dd3 was born, and cried for majority of day and night from 2 weeks old until 5mths. My other 2 children became totally neglected as their mother cracked up trying to settle/carry/shushpat the baby for 24 hours.

By neglected - i mean they learnt how to use the remote control - find sexy music videos - and learn all the sexy bum wiggling dance moves they did not suffer but i did!

Then at around 5mths it was a choice of go insane or shut the door on dd3 and go downstairs. She cried for 3 hours. I rocked on a chair crying for 3 hours. It went peaceful. 3 nights later she'd reduced to about 3 mins crying, and ever since (now 14mths) she's been an absolute dream going off to sleep - mostly looking forward to her cot - does like a strict routine and hates if if that gets broken.
Just for the record, she is a happy child with good bonds with me and dp she gets plenty of cuddles and i believe cc did not cause her to suffer, she has benefited because she stopped having to spend her life tired, grumpy and exhausted.

What i'm trying to say is - cc would definitely always be my last resort. But if necessary and weighing up needs of parents/siblings - it can work.

Best of luck x

I don't know what the latest thinking is, mine are 11 and 12 now!

This may be unpopular!

If I was to do it again, I would have the baby in with me from birth!

I did on and off with dd2 sometimes even as a newborn her moses basket was next to me, and she was a far easier more content baby than dd1, who eventually moved into her own bed in a room with dd1 at 3 months when she went through the night for ever except normal childhood ilness issues, I never had her wake in the night and cry like I did with dd1!

haven't read all posts but can add that we eventually tried CC with dd1 in despair and desperate for some sleep. Ended up sitting tense and stressed while she screamed...and screamed...and screamed...until she vomited and was hysterical with terror and panic.
It's cruel and hideous - do it if you want to be stessed out of your mind and have a vomit, snot-covered, terrifed child to deal with!
DD is now 20 and sleeps until lunchtime!!

Damn it, that's the baby rice weapon down then.

Erm, what about a light on in the room - we used to light a little night light candle and put it on top of the chest of drawers - making sure it was safe obviously! Also have a lightbox music thing which puts stars on the ceiling.

Erm what else....have you checked the instructions he came with?!!! So hard.

It sounds as though he's going to cry whatever you do so whether he's in a cot on his own or in your arms might not make much difference? I do think 5mo is a bit young for CC.

DS1 used to get like this and we just had to ride it out in the end. It was just like he was on one and had forgotten what was upsetting him originally but just couldn't calm down. DS2 still does occasionally and we just do the same. Hugs. Carries. Earplugs help!

The only thing I'd say with CC is if you're going to do it, try to stick to it. Else all the tears have been for nothing. If you do stick to it, they're going to cry and cry but at least will maybe eventually get it and then will be able to sleep by themselves. So tears not wasted...

If he gets like this when he's tired, could you try putting him to bed a bit earlier? Does he get like it before naps too?

Sorry if this sounds miserable. Don't mean it to be. It's so distressing to see them like that.

And I agree with Hattie05. Weigh up the different needs. If you are totally at the end of your tether, you have to take the action that's going to save your sanity!

Hattie - leaving your child crying for 3 hours is not cc! That is CIO - cry it out and I dont think anyone recommends that for a baby - especially not a 5 month old! I'm probably going to get jumped on for daring to say that but I am just shocked that anyone would do that. 5 minutes because you're at the end of your tether and need to walk away - understandable. leaving them for hours by themselves - definitely not!

Op, ds2 does the screaming thing! He is nearly 2 and sometimes just wakes up screaming and doesn't want to be held. I find just bear hugging him and shushing calms him down - that or giving him a quick feed! It's really random though - DH and I wonder if it's just painful wind or if he's having bad dreams :(

DS did this for 3-4 weeks at similar age.
In retrospect I think it was the beginning of teething.
He was very happy during day but would cry at bedtime and wake crying during the night.

It was a phase and thankfully passed quite quickly.
I read somewhere (not sure where, probably on here) that when teething their gums throb when they lie flat.

WRT CC, I wouldn't / couldn't, am too soft and go for the bring them into bed and cuddles approach if the crying is incessant.

Hope he settles down soon.

Follow Gina Ford'd advice in Contented baby book - worked for my twins and DD. Not cruel - just very effective.

bubbleymummy - I tried to write my post with an explanation that it was a last resort - it is not something i enjoyed doing. I was totally exhausted with 3 to look after and dp working long hours. I had tried everything else - carrying in sling, shush pat methods, walks in prams - nothing helped my baby go to sleep.

My post is intended to explain to OP that if absolutely desperate it CAN work. I start by saying i thought it was cruel. The night i caved in and did it was because it was past the other two's bedtimes and i still hadn't managed to make them any dinner due to the fact the babe was screaming her head off.

The conclusion is it worked - and i was so relieved to have found a solution. DD3 instantly changed - and i believe her problem had always been overtired.

Thanks for all the help guys, he's being a little angel (mostly!) today (including having a nice long nap), after sleeping in our bed all night last night

I'm going to try to get him into a strict routine and hes (hopefully) sleeping in his big cot tonight, in his own room. I might sleep on the floor in there DH is back in work for the next 6 nights...

We've ordered a projector nightlight, so hopefully that will help distract him if he screams

I'll come back and let you know how it goes (if he isnt screaming and I have time!)

Hattie - it may 'work' but at what cost? If you needed to let her cry while you made dinner - understandable but to leave a 5 month old in her room crying unattended for 3 hours is in no way understandable or justifiable. Your posts have made me very

Strict nap and food routine is a must, I think, for your own sanity! Good luck.

Controlled crying is a bit of a boo word and can be taken to describe a whole range of sleep-training techniques so whether it will work for you or not is an open question. But I think the WHO recommends not trying it before 6m.

On the whole I'm not a fan of training babies or trying to exert control over them to make them fit around adult needs before they are ready. I'm not sure if I'm quite a lentil weaver, but I definitely do a spot of lentil cross-stitch.

However, at 6m DD abruptly stopped feeding to sleep. For a few weeks she tolerated being rocked to sleep in my arms but at 7m even that stopped working. And then I was left with an exhausted baby who howled when placed in the cot, howled when I tried to feed her and howled if I paced the floor cuddling her. Getting her into bed post feed could take 90mins or more. It was just about bearable when DH was around to do a shift but not otherwise.

So one evening when she was 7.5m and DH was away with work I changed tactics and just popped her in the cot once I knew she was tired and well fed and clean and comfortable. She was smiling and giggling when I put her down and only started to cry once she realised I'd put her down. Then I turned off the light and left her for two mins to firm my resolve (and call DH to check I had his blessing) and went back in spoke calmly and softly to her. I stroked her back, I told her all about how much I loved her, but that she was tired and needed to sleep. She howled and I took another 2 min break and called my Mum for moral support. Then I went back and resumed the chatting and stroking and she popped her head down on the mattress, rocked from side to side a few times and started to snore. Total time about 15mins with only 4mins of unattended crying.

It doesn't work quite as quickly every night, but it has never taken anything like 90mins to get her down since. The deal is once she is definitely ready for bed and not hungry or in pain she goes into the cot and won't get picked up again until she has had some sleep (I'd obviously vary this if she was poorly or I had any reason to suspect she was in discomfort). But I'm happy to reassure and stroke from the sidelines for as long as it takes. Most nights it only takes around 2-3mins now. Some nights I do leave her for 2 mins (never more) to regroup and keep myself calm.

She is sleeping for much longer periods at night now (4-5hr stretches up from 1-1.5hrs). I think she probably was developmentally ready to start settling off to sleep with less help so whether this can help you now will probably depend a lot on your baby. And tbh I took this approach out of desperation, if I'd had the choice of rocking or feeding to sleep I'd have continued to do so. It sounds like you might be in a similar position (once you have followed all the advice given above and eliminated any other possible causes for your little one's screaming).

Okay, heres an idea of my strict routine, what do you think... (its work in progress at the mo anyway, I want to see how he copes with it...)

At the mo he stays awake for just over three hours at a time, so I will try to get it down to three hours. He has milk every 3.5-4 hours, so have put in every 3.5 hours. He eats every 4 hours...

6.30am Get up and dressed
7.00am Breakfast
7.30am Boob
9.30am Doze
10.30(11.00)am Wake up
11.00am Boob
11.30am Lunch
1.30pm Doze
2.30(3.00)pm Wake up, Boob
3.30pm Tea
5.00pm Bath
6.00pm Boob followed by story and mobile
6.30pm Bed

Before this problem he was usually feeding twice a night, so I'd say once at 11pm and once at about 3am. If hes waking three times, I'll say 9.30pm, 1am and 4.30am

CC worked like a dream for us. DD was 5 1/2 months and slept perfectly from that first night onwards having rarely slept through at all until that point.

DS2 (now 10 months) occassionally gets himself into a complete paddy, and has done since he was about 5 months.

Sometimes there's an identifiable reason for it (constipation as often as not) and sometimes there isn't.

I've found that leaving him when he's in a paddy doesn't do any good. I get upset and I suspect that whatever was bothering him becomes secondary to the new trauma of being left alone and distressed.

What does work for us is to break the crying cycle by doing something completely different. ATM the best two are a long, warm, deep bath in my arms (he stops crying as soon as the taps go on, and after 20 minutes he won't start crying again when I take him out) and BabyTV's nighttime programming of gentle music and swirling colours.

In DS2's case it's infrequent enough that I'm also willing to give him Calbuprofen on spec of him being in pain.

Wahwah- I'm all for structured days but try not to get too carried away with watching the clock rather than your DS. He may be tired or hungry before those times and at 5 months I think it would be a bit unfair to try to fit him into a rigid timetable that is clock focussed rather than baby focussed.

Also, you seem to be putting him to bed very early - do you need to get up at 6.30 am usually? That's not a criticism - personally I'm a demon before 7.30 so I just can't imagine it! :)

Bubbley I hate early mornings, he was sleeping 8-8ish, but he just wont do it anymore :( I've tried keeping him up and he still wakes up really early...

PS, hes in bed... :) so far, so good. He cried for about 10 mins and I stayed with him but didnt pick him up. He then fell asleep on his own

your routine sounds great - just try and stick at it for ten days - keep a diary - I bet you'll see and improvement!

We did controlled crying for week then moved onto self soothing, he slept through from birth but IF he woke we had to rock him in the rocking chair until he went off, now we just put him down and he goes off quite happily.

You need patience and preferably a stern hand to prevent you from running up the stairs.

I'd second the cranial osteopath. Saved my sanity. :)