to honestly want a balanced view?

[happyfairy]

so im about to be flamed... and start another debate that ends the samebut................

so there has been a number of posts about bf in the last few days

im pg with dc 2 and am deciding what to do with regard to feeding whilst i would like to consider bf i am being put off by my circumstances (1 dc, no emotional/practical support for bf)

the answer to bf is always babymoon, go to bf groups, dont do anything but sit on the bed/couch and "bond" get peole to do the house work for you and bring you snacks put any other dc's in front of the tv or read to them

if you cant do this and ff your feeding your baby inferior product not fit for purpose and risking your childs life as your too stupid/ selfish/ not trying hard enough

so what happens if no one will do your housework/ bring you snacks/do your shopping
what if you cant go to bf groups as you have a 4 year old and shes not welcome at the 2 local bf groups as its for under 4's, what if you have to take dc1 to nursery by 12 and cant sit around wating for dc 2 to feed, what if you don have the emotional/physical support to maintain establishing bf as everyone you know is pro ff.

what if the midwives want you out as quicky as possible so arent paticully bothered and freeily provide formula on the ward

yes i know breast is best but i think some people live in a bubble where they cant see that bf is not always going to work in combination with lifestyle and futher pushing of the "try harder if you fail at bf your just not trying hard enough and your child will get ill" mentality just makes unnessary heartache for many women.

i just feel alot of pressure is put on new mums on this forum and i know im about to be flamed but i feel bad for so many mothers who are being ripped to pieces for not bf for whatever reason by facts and research to prove there a failure and there child is doomed - maybe its not always that simple and its a shame some cant see that?

whilst there are those who genuinly want to support bf i think theres some who just want a fight/ to make others feel bad so they can feel better about themselves? sorry been thinking about this alot the past few days and wondered if i was alone in my views?

and yes i was ff so wa dh,sil, my brother and dc 1 and none of us have the hidious illnesses or brain dead iq that often apparenty results from ff

(runs and hides)

If BF doesn't suit you, don't do it. But don't make a big fuss about it. BF is best for baby, we all know that, so if possible, do it. If not possible, don't.

Practicalities: Get your DP, if you have one, to take paternity leave. Stay in hospital til you have BF established, or if having baby at home, phone midwives all day every day and nag for home visits. Ask your local BF group for advice on what to do with regards to attending, they might be able to make an allowance, send a HV round or direct you to a group which can cater for older children too. Take DC1 to nursery, THEN get into bed with your baby. Post on the BF/FF threads as much as you need to for the emotional support.

If these ideas are not practical or do not appeal, FF. But my advice would be to just do what you can, accept it and get on with it.

All valid points happyfairy.

I FF all three of my children and I have received nothing but support and advice from others on here.

My thinking is that breast is best but having a happy and unstressed mother is probably more important for the baby's wellbeing. I ff both my kids and had a couple of judgey comments in RL but really didn't give a fuck. My body, my choice.

I was fed Complan by the nurses in the hospital when I was born because I wouldn't go 4 hours between bottles and cried too much! And, hey ho, I'm still here and healthy at 40!

i posted asking for advice about what formula others would recommend these days (heinz seems to have vanished) not giving any further info as to why i wanted to know ( as it happened it was as i wanted to buy some just in case) most of the responses were breastmilkor asking why i wasnt trying to bf im not stupid i do know bm is best but i also wanted some practical advice on the bf AND ff forum.

People like to be bossy and superior. All Formula is pretty much the same btw; legally is has to be.

When you already have a DC, the advice that you are given for successful breastfeeding is generally not practical. But is is possible to do - you just need to ignore all that advice!

I was very lucky - and I do consider it luck - that I was able to BF with no problems, and so I don't think I am well qualified to advise people who are having difficulties - but I have noticed that a lot of people who have BF feel that they are experts, and advise on issues they may not have experienced - poor latch, mastitis, etc. Even if they have - whilst other people's experiences can be useful and reassuring, nothing makes people feel more like shit than "oh, I had infected breasts / had to feed every hour / 5 other childrn to look after - and I managed it." That is not going to do anything constructive, and will just make the person struggling feel inadequate and failing.

Mothers should be given as much information about feeding choices as possible, and should be supported in BF if that is what they choose to do - with practical, trained support for when it is difficult. And everyone else should mind their own business.

If you can only manage it for a couple of weeks, that would be better than not at all.

If it's really not possible then ff. You can buy organic formula (Hipp, is one brand, there may be others)if you feel it would be better.

Fwiw, I have bf for between 4 weeks and 4 months (4 DC) and then used organic formula. All my DC are absolutely fine. It does not follow that ff will condemn your child to a life of ill health. BF is better, but only if you can manage it. If not, so be it.

I'd say try it and see how it goes. I had a 3.5 yo- and a very difficult one at that!- to look after when bf'ing ds, ds was slightly prem, I had a caesarian and this was in the days before paternity leave so on the whole the odds seemed against me.

But one thing I hadn't bargained for was that ds was a very easy baby who slotted nicely into his older sister's routine- so a lot of the things I had been worrying about never happened. Of course it could have been totally different, in which case I might not have been able to do it- you never know.

and Serendippy im not trying to make a fuss i was just observing how i see the answers to threads go

as it happens dh wont get any more than 3/4 days off due to circumstances, hospital turfs you out after 24 hours (and isnt paticually bf friendly anyway) and dc1 is only in nursery 2 hours a day so by the time ive got him there and have to go back to get him theres not much time for bed!

ultimately you make a choice that will work for you, your baby and your family. children thrive on both breast and formula.

i ff'ed dd1, but established bf much more easily with dd2. i didn't babymoon or need to be waited on beyond the 3 weeks dh took off work. some babies take to bf more easily than others.

IMVHO bf is in many ways less faffy than bottle feeding - it would be hard to fit in all the washing bottles, making bottles, sterilising etc with a toddler around. having done both i find it easier to bf one handed than ff. and it's easier to get out of the house with a toddler and a new baby when you don't have to think about bottles/formula cartons etc.

Start threads with 'I do not plan to BF. Please do not advise me to BF. I am not going to and want advice on a particular aspect of FF.'

IME when threads make this clear from the beginning, there are very few unhelpful posts. Many people think that everyone wants to BF and needs to be give advise in order to be successful. They are honestly trying to help

By the by, I used C&G which was fine.

I'm about to have DC2, and DD will also be 4. I'm planning to bf, and I'm not entirely sure why you think it'll be so hard. I fully acknowledge I was very lucky to find BFing a breeze last time, and hope it will be the same this time. If I'm sitting down feeding the baby, well the housework will wait until I've finished. If DD wants attention, I'll ask her to sit on the sofa next to me while I read her a story as the baby feeds. If I need to be somewhere and the baby is feeding, I'll be late. That's the way it was with DD, that's the way it'll be with DC2.

If you have difficulty BFing, that's a different matter, and I would never give an opinion on that, as it's something of which I have no experience.

But if you're able to BF easily, the other stuff just sounds like you fretting needlessly. Sod the housework. Older DCs need to start learning they have to share you with someone else. If you're late for nursery, they won't send you to the naughty step. Just relax. And STOP WORRYING ABOUT HOUSEWORK!

Breastfeeding is best for the baby's health.

You have to weigh that up with your own and family needs, priorities and limitations.

I personally have never sat around the house / had people do housework for me etc etc and have BF three exclusively. For me it was easier - baby cries on way back from nursery, feed it. Baby cries when out, feed it. You can't run out or leave the bottle at home. You can read a story to the others at the same time. And so on...

no not the naughty step but they wont let you in if your more than 10 minutes late!

I don't quite understand. OP, you seem to think that LO will be attatched to nipple 24/7. My DD is 6 weeks and she bf's about every 3.5 to 4 hrs for about 20 -30 mins. just because she doesn't mean you can't put her down!

My DS (3.4) is more than capable of entertaining himself for that length of time. Oe we read a book , or there is always cbeebies!

I have never been to a bf group and my and DH's family have bothsaid " why don't you ff?" so I got no support there.

Personally I find bf a lot less hassle as no planning involved when going out, no sterilising.

The house work will still be there tomorrow but your LO will only be 1 week/2 weeks/3 weeks etc old once.

If one DC was at nursery for 2 hours and it was going to leave me with less than one hour childfree time after ferrying to and from, I would take them out if I were going to be at home anyway. What a waste of energy! (Nothing to do with BF/FF, just pointing out a way you might spend less time running around)

Again, not on the FF subject, but to get some time to yourself, can you childshare with a mum who has a child the same age as your DC1? Have the two of them for an afternoon and then have the favour repaid? Note: This only works if your DC1 will actually play nicely with other child, not if they are going to spend the whole time complaining about who took who's toy etc.

To those who are pointing out that BF does not have to be hard work. I took the OP's post to mean that she DID find it hard work and when asking for advice in the past, it seems she has been told to babymoon and do nothing except feed and skin to skin with baby. I can relate to this, DD would not BF happily and I spend months half naked trying to convince her that breast is best. So if I have another DC, I will be anxious about BF for many of the same reasons.

Slightly off topic, but your nursery sounds a bit pants. If you're paying them to look after your child, how dare they turn you away if you're 10 minutes late. And as you point out, with the round trips it hardly buys you any time to yourself. From the limited info you've given us about the nursery, I'd bin it. Or can you combine the 2 hour sessions into one longer session?

Personally I found it much easier to BF than FF. If you dont have enough support with your new baby to allow you to BF I dont understand how you would FF any easier.

I am being genuine - I really have no axe to grind about FF. My DC3 was FF. I found it a real pain and such hard work.

When I BF DC1 the first 3 weeks were very hard work and I nearly gave up. Suddenly it all clicked into place and I am lucky that I havent had any trouble with DCs 2, 4 & 5.

If I encourage women to BF its because I think its just less hassle and so much cheaper. I hate washing bottles and the way you have to make them up now seems a bleeding nightmare!

I am PMSL at the idea of sitting around doing nothing for weeks as well! Who gets to do that? I had to take the kids to school two days after DC4 . I was sensible enough to have DC5 during the easter holidays so had a bit more time before I had to start the school run

I think it would be nice though and bloody good luck to anyone who gets the chance. Its how it should be.

I will never understand all the animosity, guilt, angst, anger, competition, suspicsion (have spent 5 mins trying to bloody spell that), etc around BF & FF.

I am not sure how much of it all is real or imagined either. I have never had anyone try and force me into BF or told me off for FF. I have never have anyone tell me off for BF in public either. Mind you I have had several HVs express undiguised suprise that I BF - yes and old chav like me!

Do what you want OP I dont think people care as much as you think they do.

This is what I mean about people applying their own experiences of BF. When I was BF DS2, DS1 (3.6) simply could not be relied upon to sit and read a story / play with a game - even watch TV - so although I found ways of managing that, it isn't as simple as saying to someone who is clearly anxious, "your older child will learn to share."

As far as using formula goes, in my area of London most of the advice from doctors/nurses/other mums was to go for Aptamil if possible - something to do with it containing ingredients that made it easier for babies stomachs to digest?

Re: breastfeeding. I had practically none of the things you've listed as support in your OP. However, I was lucky enough to find breastfeeding a breeze - never hurt (!), baby latched on perfectly, plenty of milk (after I got my blood transfusion), and I loved it too. Also I'm incredibly lazy/disorganised, so being able to go out without having to take sterilised bottles/formula was fantastic. But if it's not for you that's fine too, your baby will thrive and be happy on FF or BF.