to honestly want a balanced view?

[happyfairy]

so im about to be flamed... and start another debate that ends the samebut................

so there has been a number of posts about bf in the last few days

im pg with dc 2 and am deciding what to do with regard to feeding whilst i would like to consider bf i am being put off by my circumstances (1 dc, no emotional/practical support for bf)

the answer to bf is always babymoon, go to bf groups, dont do anything but sit on the bed/couch and "bond" get peole to do the house work for you and bring you snacks put any other dc's in front of the tv or read to them

if you cant do this and ff your feeding your baby inferior product not fit for purpose and risking your childs life as your too stupid/ selfish/ not trying hard enough

so what happens if no one will do your housework/ bring you snacks/do your shopping
what if you cant go to bf groups as you have a 4 year old and shes not welcome at the 2 local bf groups as its for under 4's, what if you have to take dc1 to nursery by 12 and cant sit around wating for dc 2 to feed, what if you don have the emotional/physical support to maintain establishing bf as everyone you know is pro ff.

what if the midwives want you out as quicky as possible so arent paticully bothered and freeily provide formula on the ward

yes i know breast is best but i think some people live in a bubble where they cant see that bf is not always going to work in combination with lifestyle and futher pushing of the "try harder if you fail at bf your just not trying hard enough and your child will get ill" mentality just makes unnessary heartache for many women.

i just feel alot of pressure is put on new mums on this forum and i know im about to be flamed but i feel bad for so many mothers who are being ripped to pieces for not bf for whatever reason by facts and research to prove there a failure and there child is doomed - maybe its not always that simple and its a shame some cant see that?

whilst there are those who genuinly want to support bf i think theres some who just want a fight/ to make others feel bad so they can feel better about themselves? sorry been thinking about this alot the past few days and wondered if i was alone in my views?

Breastfeeding is the best option and makes life loads easier. If it doesn't fit in with your life then just do it for as long as possible.
I don't think anyone should be made to feel bad about their choices unless they are harming their child.

greenplanetethics.com/wordpress/babymoon-the-benefits-of-a-babymoon/

six weeks !!!! maybe thats why prams were less pricy then :)

happyfairy - I know it's easier said than done - but please try to relax a little, please don't beat yourself up about things that haven't happened yet. I am expecting dc2 as well and like you imagining all sorts of horrifically impossible circumstances arising from having a child and a newborn to look after at the same time. There really isn't any point because it's going to happen and other than doing my best there is nothing I can do. Same for you - you will do your best and it will be fine. Please don't worry, if you can help it at all, I am sure you will do a great job and have two perfectly happy and healthy children. Some people bf without cafes and babymoons and all that (I did) but then I haven't tried to bf a baby with a toddler marauding around so I couldn't advise on that other than to say I will give it a go and I think you should if you want to, and not worry about it if not. Best of luck to you.

thats what i was trying to say in my original post LB29 i just feel pissed off at the attitudes of some on here who think otherwise and seem to want to virtully punish some mothers

Crikey, 2 weeks in bed with baby and nothing else? Are you at least allowed a good book? I mean, bed rest's lovely and all that, but the conversation would be a bit rubbish, wouldn't it? And DP would refuse to water my veg patch, so my carrots and potatoes would all die. No, that seems even worse to me than some £40 piece of tat from Mothercare that everyone convinces you is indispensible.

I second what blondepinhead said.

BFing isn't always hard or painful and while some people may be "tied to the sofa" by their own personal circumstances this isn't a universal rule of BFing. For some people it does come very easily and makes life easier rather than harder.

If it's the other way round for you, then just don't do it.

I'd love to say that I BFd purely for DD's benefit but the low cost and convenience were equally influential. I wouldn't have FF'd because I perceived that I'd have to fork out lots of money, buy special apparatus, carry it round every time I left the house, get up in the night to sterilise bottles and make up formula while baby screamed etc.. It all sounded like too much faff.

I had no "babymoon" (never even heard the word before MN), certainly didn't sit at home doing nothing and have never been to a BF group or mum&baby group in my life.

I still BFd DD without a hitch and managed to fit in exercise and a social life etc.. (I'm not too fussed about the cleaning bit...) After 6 months we combined BFing with my FT job. It was still the lower-hassle option.

Babymoons, support groups etc.. are all helpful suggestions for when someone wants to BF but is having problems. They're not rules or requirements for BFing.

I took DD out and about from when she was born. Shopping, cafes, museums, train trips, parks, meeting friends for lunch etc.. I just popped her under my coat to feed her and generally no one even knew what I was doing. BFing can be quick, easy and free. No equipment to carry, no extra work sterilising and making up formula - it suited us perfectly.

Do what suits you and your family best, know your reasons and don't feel guilty if you've made an informed decision.

well id be more worried about the bed sores? and i doubt id get too much peace dc1 would no doubt move in with the cast of toystory and no doubt the dog woud want in on the action as well with his collection of plastic dog toys

Hi happyfairy

My view would be, it depends on the baby and the mother, and anyone who lectures another mother should bear in mind that their experiences would have been quite different.

I fully intended to at least have a go at BF DS1. After a third degree tear, and then 10 days of almost constant feeding ( and I mean CONSTANT :) ) I gave up before I cracked up. Not an easy decision, but fully supported by everyone, including my midwife and health visitor.

Second time round, I did try again, and it was a very different experience. Different baby, different appetite - fed every 2-3 hours for 15 mins or so. Could feed him anywhere. I fed him in Boots at 5 days old. My routine carried on as normal and I was doing the nursery run after 5 days.

(Mind you, I did have massive hormonal and thyroid problems and didn't enjoy the feeding itself very much).

Just see how you feel at the time, and if it works, great, if it doesn't don't beat yourself up.

Expressing can be done long term but you have to keep it up otherwise you loose your milk - I had a routine, and expressed first thing in the morning, lunch time, tea time and then before bed. The decent pumps are expensive but worth it as they are easier to use.

YANBU in wanting a balanced view but I don't think an overly defensive attitude is the best way to achieve it.

For starters, you have to accept that some people who will defend bf to the hilt and that some people also think ff is the Devil's Own Sustenance. If you look into the politics surrounding ff in developing countries, it is hard to disagree!

But in the real world that applies to most of us, you often end up with a middle course based around circumstances. I'd always advice trying to establish bf - or give it a go for a little while because there's no doubt that breastmilk is the best milk for babies. I'd also, gently, point out that ff comes with an awful lot more work, expense and potential inconvenience due to the need for sterilisation etc. Plus bf means you have the perfect ready meal "on tap" and don't have to cart bag-fulls of bottles out.

But all these are ideals. Nobody is going to stake you and your baby out on Mount Olympus if you discover that bf isn't best for you. But it is much harder to give things even a little trial if you get all defensive and definite before you've even had the baby.

I didn't have a house-full of people waiting on me when I had my dcs. I didn't have any sort of "babymoon" either. In fact, after the first week or so I mainly remember just getting on with ordinary life. But I fed ds1 until 5.5 months when I got a fearsome abscess and had to take ferocious antibiotics that weren't compatible with bf. DS2 got 8 weeks worth of bf because he went into hospital with bronchiolitis and my milk dried up instantly - probably due to the worry. Both thrived. In fact, these children are now 29 and 28 and neither of them has ever appeared malnourished.

I think, tbh, that you are much more bothered about this than anyone else is likely to be.

i wasnt trying to be defensive? i dont know where you got that from? and if i was definate i wouldnt have posted anyway i would have just gone away and ff and not given it a second thought

yes im aware of the whole developing countrys issue BUT i dont think that should be used as a reason for not using/condeming formula in 21st century britain.

in what way am i more bothered about this than anyone else? have you not seen the threads of the past few days developing in to petty namecalling and genral nastyness - thats why i posted i feel its very diffucut to post about the topic for many mums in need of genuine advice support. maybe its just me but i think we should be able to discuss without the debates and bullying.

I think a lot of the breastfeeding advice (take a babymoon in bed/the sofa, spend time cuddling your baby and let someone else do thehousework/ find a supportive group of friends, let your baby be the guide to what your baby needs) apply to all new mothers no matter how they choose to feed their babies and are recovering from birth and settling into life with a whole tiny new person in the easiest way possible. It makes breastfeeding easier, but it also makes formula feeding easier, too, if someone else gives you a hand with the new baby. I found that breastfeeding a second baby was very easy because I didn't have to faff around preparing bottles or sterilizing, and I could generally feed the baby while doing aomething else. So I think that not wanting to breastfeed your baby is a perfectly valid reason to breastfeed, but already having an older child is a pretty silly reason.

blue cat how often were you pumping to keep it up if you dont mind me asking?

A lot of people in the situation you describe can and do bf, so its not as if its a total barrier.
Do it, don't do it, I can't imagine why you would think anyone but you would care.

what is babymoon?

I wondered that, too, Redrollers!

I breastfed 4 DC, & didn't have most the support and similar options OP mentions (babymoon, wtf, Sounds like a recipe for childbirth fever) certainly no one to do my shopping or bring DC and me snacks. How is it easier to get housework done and play with other DC when you FF, is it because all formula feeders secretly do lots of bottle propping? God knows I would have bottle propped if I had FF.

I'm resting my case.
If you can't see the defensiveness and determination to jump down throats then there's little point trying to offer you balanced advice, is there?

Honestly? I can't imagine why FF is easier than bf, no bottles etc. If anyone could enlighten me I'd be interested, after all they still need feeding a lot as a newborn and someone still has to sit still to do it. And in my book the pros of bf outweigh any perceived cons anyway.

But I say that as someone who has had an easy ride of bf.

Oh, and does anyone really 'babymoon'?! I just came home and got on with life.

Perhaps I'm weird (okay I am) but I dont remember cleaning/sterilizing bottles being such an enormous faff? I remember DH and I doing them together of an evening. Of course all this was around 1000 years ago when we made up a day's worth of bottles at one go then stacked them in the fridge.

I know that the 'rules' have changed but as a happy ff'der I just wanted to put a counter view.

ha ha, I thought babymoon was some kind of BF class!!
In my personal experience, I never felt that anyone judged me, but then I hadn't discovered MN!
I would always wonder why someone didn't try to breastfeed, but understand there are a lot of reasons why they might not. Completely their choice.
But I must say, I have never heard the argument that you need support for someone to bring you snacks!!
No-one ever did my "housework/ bring you snacks/do your shopping"
and I never went to any bf groups, that would be my idea of a nightmare!!

Ditto, but then MIL did do a Waitrose shop en route each time including a rotisserie chicken for lunches etc...but she would have done that regardless. Every time I smell rotisserie chicken now it reminds me of the first few days at home with DD.

blue cat how often were you pumping to keep it up if you dont mind me asking?

I think it got lost in amongst the earlier comments......first thing, lunch time, tea time and last thing before bed. Used to take about 20 minutes with a pump that would do one side at a time, so if you got the double I suppose it cut be cut down in time, and I used to get about 10oz each time. DS was taking about 8oz so I used to freeze the other 2oz so I had a stash if I needed it. Did this for 4 months and then cut down to first thing and last thing, and eventually to nothing.

really jumping down throats? ok then

what is bottle propping ?

and no gnome i didnt think it was a faff either myself or dh did it whilst tidying up after dinner. my experience of ff was fed every 3-4 hours for 6 months or so then maybe 2 feeds a day +beaker from there on till about 13 months when bottles went and beaker was used. if i went out put the bottle in a insulated bag and took tommee tippiee flask thing to heat bottle.

that was my experience and perhaps thats why bf seems less natrual to me this time as ive been reading up on it and have seen all the advice i mentioned to mums who are beating themselves up for struggling