to honestly want a balanced view?

[happyfairy]

so im about to be flamed... and start another debate that ends the samebut................

so there has been a number of posts about bf in the last few days

im pg with dc 2 and am deciding what to do with regard to feeding whilst i would like to consider bf i am being put off by my circumstances (1 dc, no emotional/practical support for bf)

the answer to bf is always babymoon, go to bf groups, dont do anything but sit on the bed/couch and "bond" get peole to do the house work for you and bring you snacks put any other dc's in front of the tv or read to them

if you cant do this and ff your feeding your baby inferior product not fit for purpose and risking your childs life as your too stupid/ selfish/ not trying hard enough

so what happens if no one will do your housework/ bring you snacks/do your shopping
what if you cant go to bf groups as you have a 4 year old and shes not welcome at the 2 local bf groups as its for under 4's, what if you have to take dc1 to nursery by 12 and cant sit around wating for dc 2 to feed, what if you don have the emotional/physical support to maintain establishing bf as everyone you know is pro ff.

what if the midwives want you out as quicky as possible so arent paticully bothered and freeily provide formula on the ward

yes i know breast is best but i think some people live in a bubble where they cant see that bf is not always going to work in combination with lifestyle and futher pushing of the "try harder if you fail at bf your just not trying hard enough and your child will get ill" mentality just makes unnessary heartache for many women.

i just feel alot of pressure is put on new mums on this forum and i know im about to be flamed but i feel bad for so many mothers who are being ripped to pieces for not bf for whatever reason by facts and research to prove there a failure and there child is doomed - maybe its not always that simple and its a shame some cant see that?

whilst there are those who genuinly want to support bf i think theres some who just want a fight/ to make others feel bad so they can feel better about themselves? sorry been thinking about this alot the past few days and wondered if i was alone in my views?

serendippy my feeling was that the reason the OP finds it hard work is because she's making it harder for herself. She's fretting about housework not getting done while she's BFing. She's convincing herrself that her older DC will react badly to not being given attention. She's worrying about how she'll get hold of snacks for herself while BFing. If she puts aside her stress about housework, DC1 and snacks, and still finds it hard, then that's different. But at the moment the barriers she's predicting all seem to be her own anxieties.

Happyfairy Many of the reasons in your OP are why i chose not to BF my 2nd and 3rd children.

No one can make me feel bad about my choices though i know they were valid reasons for me

What some of us do is formula feed and feel nothing but liberated and grateful for it. I didn't breastfeed either of my two DDs for a number of reasons - firstly, I didn't want to, secondly I didn't have the time or inclination to be tied down so much and thirdly I had no support whatsoever wrt housework, childcare etc from my then husband and soon became a lone parent.

So, I formula fed. I considered it no-one's business but my own and enjoyed the fact that I wasn't tied to the sofa. It's no bg deal, I'm not smarter than breastfeeders and they aren't smarter than me. I have two horribly healthy teenagers to prove it! There really isn't any need fr naval-contemplating over the subject. :)

the answer to bf is always babymoon, go to bf groups, dont do anything but sit on the bed/couch and "bond" get peole to do the house work for you and bring you snacks put any other dc's in front of the tv or read to them

I didn't do any of this and managed to breastfeed. Bloody hell if I'd have known I was supposed to find somebody to do my housework and bring me snacks I'd have made the most of it.

The first few weeks may be a bit difficult but once breastfeeding is established surely it's less time consuming to breastfeed as you don't have to make up the bottles and wash and sterilise them.

Slings are a godsend too. You can bond with your baby and still spend time with your other children.

well yes its the school nursery though so i put dc in this year to try and make freinds with others who will be in school in sept as we just moved here and yes it is a pain in the arse but seems beneficial in terms of development so never mind ( was using a private nursery till last sept when i gave up work due to many complicated reasons!)

happyfairy buy the cheapest one. They've all got the same stuff in them.

Some babies feed for hours dont they? Mine never did. They have all had fairly short feeds, about 15 mins at a time. They all fed a frequently because of the short feeds but it meant I didnt have to sit down for hours with them.

I can honestly say I never found it a problem. I wouldnt just say that to encourage someone to BF. I think its better to be honest about this stuff.

Until you have the baby you have no idea how they will feed or how your other children will behave.

The worse thing about BF is trying to find clothes that allow you to do it but dont make you look like a frumpy old bag.

OP I did bf my children, but didn't have the luxury of a babymoon, a waiter with snacks at regular intervals and all the other stuff you mentioned.

I think when people say all these things are necessary to be able to bf, it just makes it seem like an impossible feat. And I found after the first few weeks when yes, bfing did take longer than bottle feeding, it then became much quicker and easier than all the faff with bottles and sterilisers. I can only speak for myself, but I managed to bf with a busy, stressful life, and other chlidren (after DC no.1, obviously!). IMO the 'problem' of other children is soon overcome with a good stack of dvds - shock horror!

A midwife once said to me that historically women have managed to breasfeed through famines and wars, so being busy and tired won't prevent you from being able to do so. Easy to say, I know, but I do think that in most cases, if you persevere, bf will work in the end, if you really want it to. And if you don't want it to - fine!

happyfairy - I do think that you seem to be starting off with a negative attitude. I've bf 4 dcs with no help at home and have never even heard the term "babymoon" - what on earth is that ?

Why not think about how you could make things work rather than why they won't.

Practical things you can do are online shopping, get your snacks ready before hand, feed by the clock rather than on demend. Physically you might not be able to bf but I don't think your practical reasons are valid ones.

Good luck

I think the most balanced view we can give you (if a balanced view is actually what you are after) is that you won't know beforehand how time consuming or stressful breastfeeding is going to be: some people do seem to need to do the total withdrawal thing, but I have also known breastfeeding mums who have birth at home and went straight back to their usual routine of baby groups and shunting older children back and forth from their activities- my suspicion is that most of us are somewhere in between.

Have you thought about expressing milk? I did this with both mine as I struggled to feed them 'from source', but wanted them to have breast milk as long as possible.

If you do decide to go down this route then buy one with an electric pump!

I did both. Worked for me, BF was hard work and FF gave me a much needed and much deserved break. Start with a FF at 10pm, it does not affect the amount you produce. I introduced a bottle at about 1 month old as well, I know loads of poeple say you should do it in the first few days but I didn't and it was still OK.
Good luck with it all!

I am going to start ttc soon and dd is just coming up to year. I only managed 4 weeks ebf and 4 weeks mixed with her (lots of expressing and bottles too).
If I am lucky enough to get preggers again if the next one is as hard to feed as dd I just won't be able to and will feel really sad.
There are a few things I'm planning to do (not let dh travel for work from 2.5 weeks, not move house at 8 weeks, not have PIL around taking baby off me for a while etc etc) but even all of them will not help if the next one wants the mammoth feed/doze marathons that dd did.
I'm struggling to work it all out in my head and panicking already - and we're not even trying yet.
One of the reasons I really want to is that night feeds were easier bf than ff and I want to protect my sleep fiercely this time.

happyfairy then in that case I can see why you'd put up with the nursery. But if they're going to be miserable old bags stern about you getting there on time, and you think the baby will want a feed, get there early and sit in the corner BFing, to make the point that, right now, people need to be a little more flexible with you about time keeping, because you're feeding a baby.

cory I did and I am nothing special. I was fortunate that the babies were all good feeders and I am not shy about feeding in public. I honestly didnt find it hard.

That doesnt make me better than anyone else. I am not going to pretend it was really tough in case I make someone feel guilty though.

I hate the assumption that women who BF look down on those that dont. I really dont give a toss tbh.

bluecat one of the things I have never got to grips with is expressing! I am rubbish at it. I always get a new breast pump and it lies,hardly used around the place till I eventually chuck it out!

serendippy my feeling was that the reason the OP finds it hard work is because she's making it harder for herself. She's fretting about housework not getting done while she's BFing. She's convincing herrself that her older DC will react badly to not being given attention. She's worrying about how she'll get hold of snacks for herself while BFing. If she puts aside her stress about housework, DC1 and snacks, and still finds it hard, then that's different. But at the moment the barriers she's predicting all seem to be her own anxieties.

no im not really worried about the house work (if i was id go and finish making the beds and loading the dishwasher) im not really worried about getting snacks either? and dc is so easygoing im sure he wouldnt be bothered ? i think serendippy sees what im trying to voice :)

on the subject of slings bf or not which would you reccommend btw was looking at a babasling but have seen reviews saying there pants?

and dc1 had a bad reaction to cow and gate which is why i switched to heinz farleys and so i thought i would try something else first just incase i had heard aptimal was the same brand repackaged (i did look in boots the other day and did seem fairly simalar with the same address on the box so i wasn't sure?

I bf'd and he did feed constantly. I always feel a bit irritated when I see people dismiss how much bfing can be. It's easy to say: "oh but it's so much easier". It isn't always.

I will bf again but I think that posting to say how easy it was for you isn't very helpful when someone is anxious about how timeconsuming it can be.

happyfairy I felt very much as you did with my second DC (who was one yesterday!) I found the formula support board very helpful. Will bump it for you

And yes, please could someone explain what a babymoon is, and which ridiculous 'parenting expert' made it the gospel truth that all BFing mothers must have one? Is it per chance something that costs more than £40, is only available from selected retailers and serves no practical purpose after you've finished BFing?

pomme thats what I mean - mine did short feeds. I think it would have been MUCH harder if they did those mammothly long ones.

Thats why people cant tell someone it will be easy - you just never know.

"so what happens if no one will do your housework/ bring you snacks/do your shopping
what if you cant go to bf groups as you have a 4 year old and shes not welcome at the 2 local bf groups as its for under 4's, what if you have to take dc1 to nursery by 12 and cant sit around wating for dc 2 to feed, what if you don have the emotional/physical support to maintain establishing bf as everyone you know is pro ff."

ok so ds1 was 3 when ds2 was born, EXp left on deployment when he was 11 days old and i had no-one to do any housework, shopping, school runs, cooking, emotional support. i also had a dog.

i ignored the house, i made as quick and easy meals as possible. didn't set myself any goals for the day, so if nursey was as far as i made it, so be it. shopping was when i could manage it. TBH i didn't give a fuck if someone arrived at my house and turned up their nose at the mess. if they had a problem with it they were welcome to get stuck in. (no-one did)i just fed my baby as and when he needed it and did as little as possible of everything else.

stop putting pressure on yourself to be perfect when your baby is born. no-one expects it and anyone who does needs tehir head looking at. and dont put pressure on yourself to BF if it isn't what you want to do. the only person you have to answer to is yourself. make your decision for your own reasons and be confident that you have made the right ones for you and your baby.

I always thought a 'babymoon' was where you basically stayed hooled up in your boudoir with baby, with slaves on hand to bring you food & water and whatever you need for a week or so. In that time you do nothing buy concentrate on baby and it's/your needs.

Would go down fantastically well with other DC's I imagine!

thefirstMrsDeVere Wed 16-Feb-11 14:16:12
The worse thing about BF is trying to find clothes that allow you to do it but dont make you look like a frumpy old bag.
:) i could cry when i look at my draw full of bras my ginormas pregnancy boobs dont fit into and probably never will again

i have thought of expressing actully but everything ive read about it doesnt seem very positive - is it a long term substainable thing to do and what would be involved practicly?

oh and visit the feeding forum for futher info on babymoons - basically skin to skin in bed for a couple of weeks