to hate it when people talk about "indie" schools

[gobehindabushfgs]

in an attempt to make it sound cool, edgy and alternative? it isn't. it's private education. it's a right-wing, ultimately selfish decision.

"indie"

Yes, and that is a combined income made up of two incomes which are above average, isn't it? Not a household with an average income at all, then?

Oh there bloody well are NOT, Pixie! The fact that some 'indie' parents have no concept of a household income which would NEVER accomodate school fees no matter how many holidays they didn't go on or cars they didn't buy is just one of the many things that stinks about independent schools.

I was answering that charge. As I said earlier, of course there are many people for whom fees will never be possible but there are lots who make huge sacrifices to do so and can just about manage if the don't take hols etc.

My point was that parents who pay mention these parents on here because they are the ones who come into contact with them.

On both sides, UQD.

Is not having a holiday a huge sacrifice then? Or a new car? Who knew?

Yes. You meet parents for whom 'huge sacrifice' entails owning fewer cars and consequently find several thousand spare pounds so that your child won't ever encounter any of the thousands and thousands of people for whom that isn't the case.

But it's all good, because those people don't speak properly anyway.

And on the subject of manners, the most pushing, shoving, queue jumping arrogance I have ever seen has been in private schools. Unsurprising really that the 'me first, you last, fuck you' attitude pervades, I suppose.

Betty - but I have no vested interest in choosing the worst examples of private schools. That would not make sense.

UD, me neither, although I just did, because I'm so riled by this crap about learning manners and morals in private school. The main moral you learn from being sent to private school is - you matter more than most people.

A 50k combined income is only slightly above avarage though. 25k is less than a lot of professionals earn including teachers and nurse.

"Huge sacrifice" in the context in which George Osborne might understand it. Like letting the gardener go and having a shorter skiing holiday this year.

But, Joans post directly below yours does exactly that.

Carry on taking the piss JoanOfArgos, but just consider this...

'Ow far d'ya fink I'd 'ave got in bizniz if I'd of spoken like this JoanOfArtgos? Cos Ah could 'ave done. Plen-ey of kids do nahdays cos teachers don't bovver ter crect 'em.

Or did ya fink Ah meant speaking wiv a plum n me marf?

Thanks to a school which placed an emphasis on correcting poor English, I was taught to speak properly.

Which earned me a lot of money and caused me to pay a lot of taxes. :) It's not much to ask imho but damn hard to find in some state schools these days, particularly the type I mentioned as those I would avoid under all circumstances.

On 50k most people would need to make sacrifices. And not the kind associated with my old MP.

Do you honestly beleive that ALL private school children think themselves better than their state counterparts Joan?

I think your arguments are moving into the emotive and are less cogent for it.

I acknowledged as much.

25k is less than many people earn, yes. However it is above average. And a household which earns it x2 is well above average.

Well yes, but professionals tend not to be on middle incomes, although they do like to talk like they are.

If you look through all the threads on this, the overwhelming tone of those of us who support state schools is to say why we do so, not to say why we think private schools are rubbish or a waste of money.

For me it is a fundamental ethical point - all education should be free. I recognise that this is not where everyone comes from on this issue, even those on my "side".

of COURSE not everyone could afford school fees
does that mean that those who can shouldn't send their kids there?

again, I repeat. Why reduce everything to the lowest common denominator?

What is REALLY sad is that people can't rely on their state schools to take their bright kids, teach them, and send them to medical school.
Obviously some of them make it. But lots of them don't, and not because of lack of intelligent.

Why shouldn't state schools be as good as independent schools, for teaching anyway? Why?

Valhalla - yeah, that Alan Shooga, ee talks wiv a roit plum in is marf dunnee? Nah wunner ee ain't been a success.

Oh... hang on...

Oh dear, Valhalla, that was embarrassing! Is that how you imagine everyone in state school talks, truly?

Yes, I know that argument I just made was emotive - and I hope not the tenor in which I have made other points. As I say, I was riled by the manners and morals nonsense.

I don't know, I tend to think that it's mainly down to me how my children speak?

And in my profession (law) there were/are masses and masses of grammar and state school educated people doing very well. Nowadays - not so much. Why aren't those clever state educated pupils coming through like they used to? It isn't because of private schools - that hasn't changed.

'believe'

I blame my crap education

Valhalla. You are so right about the accent thing. At my school they didn't give a crap about how we sounded because none of us were going to do anything decent with our lives. That's why I don't blame people who send their kids to private school whether the fees don't make a dent in their piles of cash or if they have to scrabble together the money with grandparents, aunties, second jobs etc.

Joan, you are way off the mark in your accusations that all parents pay because they think they are better.
What are you actually basing that on? Because I am basing my information on actual experience.

I don't think two parents who were nurses or one nurse, one teacher are so far above in salary to be outside the norm. Yet their combines salary would be about 60k

It's terribly amusing when people try to impersonate "the lower classes" based on what they have seen on "Waterloo Road".

Has anybody said they shouldn't be as good? There are great teachers in my school. Blimey - it's a tough old place to work if you're no good at it.

joan you are very silly

have you met any private school parents? it sounds like you have got your information from reading lord snooty in the beano