to hate it when people talk about "indie" schools

[gobehindabushfgs]

in an attempt to make it sound cool, edgy and alternative? it isn't. it's private education. it's a right-wing, ultimately selfish decision.

"indie"

Who are you addressing that to UnquietDad?

because the whole tenor of this thread madonna is that people shouldn't sent their kids to private school because it isn't fair that they come out better educated

cue all the example of clever children who go to private school because otherwise they'd never get into medical school

if state schools provided just as good teaching then there wouldn't be such an issue

of course lots of them do, and are fantastic, but it is not the norm

And the majority of well-paid, successful people in this country, UnquietDad? Articulate or of the Sugar variety? That's aside from the opinion others form of a person as soon as she/he opens her/his mouth.

(Bloody Sugar, I've never forgiven him for his treatment of Venables, now I have another reason to dislike him!). :o

Again, the issues which are being zealously jumped upon in my argument are but a small part of a far wider collection of reasons why I would favour private education over state education.

FWIW, I don't think my children have better manners or morals than we would have had if they'd gone to our local state primary.

In fact, nor do I think they'd be any further ahead at 11. I, pay for the facilities and experience. If you told me they'd come out with the same Alevels at the local comp, I'd still pay for the breadth that I believe they get.

Average earnings in the UK for full-time employees = £499 per week in the year to April 2010. That's £25948 pa.

www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

I disagree that that is the tenor of the thread. I don;t see that srgument made (perhaps I've missed a post or two?) Getting rid of private schools wouldn't magically level educational outcomes. Surely nobody thinks that? My concerns aren't about exam results. I can help my students get As at A level, even though my school would send lots of people running for the nearest 'indy'. I don't think the only thing that comes out of schools is eam certificates though.

"Oh dear, Valhalla, that was embarrassing! Is that how you imagine everyone in state school talks, truly?"

Don't be silly! Why do I need to imagine it? I wasn't saying that about "everyone" but that poor English is often not corrected in some state schools.

UQD, I hope that your Waterloo Road comment wasn't aimed at me. I am one of the lower classes, although I have no idea WTF Waterloo Road is (guessing it's a TV programme or film?.

Even Unquietdad himself knows that as one half of a professional couple he could move to a smaller house in a less leafy part of town. He could never have a holiday or go to the pub and pay fees instead.

I'm not suggesting he would want to do this in amillion years. But he could, and some people do make that choice whether its deemed 'mad' or not.

freshmint you are quite right.

In the nineties there were lots of state schooled kids filling the places at law and med schools, applying for jobs in the city,getting into politics.

Social mobility has got worse. Much worse.

Thank you, LondonMother. There you go, Joan. Average salary just under 26k so my 50k-60k guess wasn't far off the mark.

I find it very noticeable
and sad

Oh, without a doubt social mobility has wittered away.
I would not be where I am if I hadn't been able to use my education to get my out of the council ghetto I grew up in.

It is one of my bug bears.

So many barriers.

Poor advice on GCSE and A level choices being the starting point.

Betty same here.

I ended up doing decent A levels becaus eit was what I was good at and there was little choice.

Had I have been offered Textiles, Media Studies and Tourism, I might have been tempted. My parents certainly wouldn't have known any better...

It makes me furious when I hera about young people being steered down these paths, which do nothing but close doors.

It was seriously deprived where I grew up. I think the only thing that kept my parents' spirit up was knowing that they could push me academically and that would lift me up and out.

I just don't think it's the same these days. I certainly don't think it's as easy for kids growing up where I did to rely on their education to get them out. For one, I didn't need to pay for mine.

all education should be free

why? What would be unethical about a slightly different proposition 'an excellent free education should be available to all'?

I sometimes think that this generation of children will be marked out not by whether they were privately schooled or not, but whether their parents can afford a degree, perhaps another, proff study, an internship etc

I actually know of one family who have moved their two children back into the state sector for secondary school. They took the decision that they couldn't afford fees and saving for help with university and so moved the kids.

The state comp is a good one and the kids have settled well though the mum did say there was a huge difference in the level of both maths and French. Other than that, fine. The money they would have pain in fees they now put away for university.

I wonder if more parents will go down this route.

Perhaps they will.

Obviously there are some parents who can afford to pay for it all and already assume that that is what they will do...but for those who can only do one or the other..hard choices to be made.

But there will be swathes who can do neither. We're talking thousands and thousands of pounds, perhaps for two three or four children.

My friend did a (what sounded) excellent Media Studies course at university (an ex poly FWIW) and walked straight into a job with a well known broadcaster. It doesn't necessarily close doors if it's a good course and what you want to do.

I did Communication Studies A-Level, loved it and got an A, mainly because I loved it. I wish I'd had the confidence to also carry on with Art and Drama or other creative subjects which I loved rather than doing more traditionally academic subjects which I didn't but thought I had to do because I was clever and would get me a 'good job' at the end of it. I'd encourage my kids to do what they love doing not do an academic subject they don't enjoy to end up in a well-paid job they don't like because they have to go and get a 'proper job'.

Yes. It will be a consideration for the section of the population who have some disposable income they want to use for their children's benefit. It won't matter to the uber-rich or (obviously) the majority who don't have significant disposable income.

I agree. And I completely understand the concept that for a huge number of parent, paying for school will never be an option.

That's what frustrated me when talking to Joan as she was making the assumption that I was so aloof that such a thing had escaped me. Hell, I grew up not knowing what a bought house was let alone a school you paid for! I would never allow my children to grow up in a little affluent bubble regardless of the fact that we pay for school.

I think a lot will end up in loads of debt for years after university, as many are now.

Eleanor that's fine.

But I'm talking about young people who have not yet made up their minds what they want to do.

Perhaps they would like to go inot the law, or politics, or academe, or braodcasting, or banking, or whatever...they just don't know yet. And A level choices can close those doors.

Pretending that all qualifications are equal simply ensures that those children who have had good advice (as opposed to being the best candidates) are better placed to make choices.

Betty - what evidence do you have for assuming that I live in a big house in a "leafy" suburb?
Or that I'd save enough for school fees by "giving up" holidays and the pub?

(Holidays and the pub, FFS. How much would that save you per year?)