to think that parents who moan about their kids gettting too much homework..........

[rudolphsmum]

........to think that parents who moan about there kids getting too much homework can't then expect them to do well in exams.

If my son is finding something difficult I sit and explain it to him and if I can't I speak to his teacher. The most recent complaint I heard was that one mum spoke to the head teacher about her daughter finding homework hard but that she wasn't interested because all she is cares about is the school getting good results ....sorry I thought that was what a good head teacher was supposed to be concerned about.

There seems to be a certain group of parents that send there kids to school and expect all learning to go on between 9-3 Mon - Fri and then wonder why their children struggle and before anyone starts on about children being to tired or need to play and relax when they get home, I am not talking about hours of the stuff either - ok rant over ;)

I don't think there is a connection actually. Learning at home is one thing, homework is quite another.

"Did you read the others, from supportive parents in despair? Or let's imagine the posts that will never appear here, from the parents who offer nothiing at all, nothing, in terms of home learning, for all sorts of reasons."

any response?

"You are the type of person who wants to punish the children for the sins of the parents. Or the parents' own poor education."

any response?

100000 children failing at eleven

any response?

What about the children without support at home? Not just parents that can't be arsed, but illiterate parents, foreign parents, pissed up/druggie parents....for some homework is just another nail.

I understand the point that unsupported children are at a disadvantage, but I think there are simply some things that cannot be covered with any efficacy in class.

For example MFLs. At some point puils cannot move forward until they have learned certain vocab.

It would be boring and utterly inefficient for the children to do this in class (we all learn and recall detail by rote in differnet ways and in different time scales).

Betetr for the teacher to set a few words to be learned each week and for he/she to spend the lesson teaching application, surely.

But if that's the case WF, how come the Base with no homework isn't fasring worse than the comp with it?

On paper at least the comp is extremely desirable as a school.

I do think that homework for NT comp kids is a different issue to homework across the board for all school children. there is a lot to be learned about self supported study for a start. But there should be ops for homework club at lunchtime etc to reduce inequality.

LeQueen - have never made mine do it, either (they are in primary). And I've had nothing but minor grumbling off the school. So I wonder why more people just don't bother with primary school homework? I mean, if you feel strongly that it's detrimental to your child, just don't do it.

And I just ignore the minor grumbling. Much as I do the homework (apart from spellings and reading).

I couldn't say.

Perhaps the subjects on offer are different. Less subjects which rely heavily on rote learning? MFL, Latin etc

Or perhaps the comp is just dreadful at targeting homework efficiently.

I have to say DC's schools ave been fabulous. There has been consistent HW, but it is short, sharp and always useful.
DC and I can see the point of it, which helps in terms of attitude towards it.

There's no Latin here, they do two language options anyhow (MFL and Welsh).

But teh comp is top in the tables for school results so really not suffering from whatever the difference is.

As far as I can see it's more to do with inclusion: the children in the base (all 12 of them) are not given homework so they are expected to attend a work extension club in school time. The comp assumes all children are equal (and by equal, I mean highly priveledged- school has a rep for that) and provides no options for less lucky children.

Whereas IMO there should be a homework club (there was when I was at school) and actual 'home' work, and children could pick what suited them best and perhaps results would be even better rather than just accepting poorer ones from a certain % of disadvantaged pupils because they are in a minority.

Some chidlren of course would choose to do nothing but then that's a much fairer selector than homelife.

100,000 children failing at 11... each one with a different reason so really, you can't lump them all in one category of failure. I hated doing homework and it stemmed from a mother that when I asked for help with something, she would fly off the handle, sit me down at the table with my homework and while she proceeded to do it for me, she made statements such as 'look at you, you are so stupid you can't do your own damn homework' or 'I've already been to school stupid, why do you think I want to do yours.' If I asked for Dad's help, that would send her into more of a flurry. Homework became a chore and something that I just didn't want to engage because if I stumbled on something I needed help with, I couldn't ask her because no one wants to sit through that. I did the bare minimum to pass highschool and didn't go to university until I was 28 and that's when it all changed, likely because I was studying something that had meaning and interest to me.

The whole system is failing because the way school is conducted only benefits those that learn in that manner. There needs to be an overhaul and better understanding how each student learns, a more personal approach and most definitely smaller classes. The amount of homework is a drop in the bucket to all the other external factors of children failing at school. I still think there is too much of it under the age of 12 though, voiced by parents that do other family activities, which in itself are learning venues for children.

i think there has to be a balance. My 7 year old son's class were being given 3.5/4 hours a week at one point. We really struggled to keep up but just about managed. I think they must have reviewed the amount as now days they get about 1.5 hours a week. The homework also seems better quality/more thought out by the teacher. I agree it's important that son gets into the routine of homework - he actually enjoys doing it anyway.

Let's be pragmatic.

However many different reasons there are: one is clear: a failing homelife.

When you have a curriculum dependent on a successful home life you have got a big problem right there.

Which is easy to resolve: stop making the urriculum dependent on a successful home life.

Other suggestions I would make are: prioritise. If they are failing in maths and English (which they are) make them a priority in school hours. If they are a priority already (which they are) and there is still failure, devote even more time to them.

Stop encouraging children in junior school to chat by putting tables in squares and circles.

Use teaching assistants to listen to children read as a number one hundred per cent priorit instead of helping with art projects and sticking up school displays.

These cost nothing. Nothing. No need for great workshops and committees doing reports and two years of research and new classrooms and more teachers.

Go to a private school, look at what they do.

Stop blaming the children.

right I did say i was leaving to pick up my DS

Nice to see you continued to argue with yourself whilst I was away.

Knowing that statistic doesnt make a difference to my view as I have previously stated learning is a complex process and many factors contribute to educational achievement not just homework whether it is supported or not set or not.

Your last post has some sensible ideas which I agree with: tables and TA's

Incidentally GCSE grades are predicted using previous educational achievement and the students postcode is taken into account.

oh..well now you're back, any responses?

I can't believe you just ignore 100,000 failing children. You find out about it, and you straight away dismiss it.

You are a teacher who talks about lazy, can't be bothered parents and you dismiss 100,000 failing children.

Wow. That's some professional pride you got there.

Right it is fair that you have quoted a statistic to back up a point you have made but I dont see how that translates into using it to get at me?

I am not personally or professionally responsible for the children especially as I teach secondary anyway, that statistic refers to the full breadth of provision across the education system.

I dont need you to talk to me about professional pride when i come across students in year 9 who cant tell the time reliably or in year 7 still dont know the days of the week let alone barely read.

I have plenty professional pride in the GCSE and A Level results I have helped students to achieve over the years thank you.

Why are you so angry?

Pissedoff, can you explain how the curriculum is dependent on homework?

And try to do it without personal attacks on me like "But it does mean you haven't got a gnat's testicle of a clue about this despite you attempts to be patronising. Flitter back to fairy land." Nicely now.

Blue at one point (if you read back) she thought my posts were you and then found me to attack I dont mind disagreeing with people and sometimes just accept you have a different point of view but the variety and inconsistency of some of the points made by right I thought she must be copying and pasting but I am pleased you are back I have found a thread to talk twaddle on after this. good luck

I seems to me that in failing schools, disruptive students can hamper the best teacher's efforts to get through the 'curriculum'.

Therefore, there is benefit in sending a child home with well set and targeted homework so that they can make up the difference at home. It is not ideal - as it depends on the child's motivation and parents' encouragement - but at least it does not condemn ALL students in a failing school to gaps in their knowledge.

The problem with parents 'setting' homework is that they do not know what methods the school is using (phonics, ORT, number lines/squares, mental arithmetic), nor will they know where the child is at in the curriculum and might end up confusing the child even further.

I disagree that there should be no homework just so the disadvantaged do not get disadvantaged any further.

By all means improve the curriculum/teaching so that it is standalone and does not depend on homework. But even with a perfect curriculum, if the teacher cannot get through it (because of disruptive elements in the class or slower children holding back the class), then even more important in failing schools than good schools that children are given homework at their level.

Well put Blueshoes agree with all you have said.

I have said there are many factors affecting achievement, behaviour being one of them, use of mobiles, admin overload on teachers, less teaching time as other stuff is squeezed into timetable or other stuff prioritised over some subject areas oh I could go on.

love, I have to admit that it pains me to see you being subject to the same snidey remarks that escalates to gratuitous abuse from pissedoff, if you actually disagree with her.

Let's call it pissedoff baiting, a form of bear baiting.

I think the fact you are a teacher (and therefore apparently responsible for 100000 failures) really kicked her off. You are right about her inconsistent stance. To me, it is a lack of coherent argument. Although I finally did find a post that made sense to me, the square tables one.

In schools where disruption is a huge problem, parents are always part of the problem. Sending work home to be done with the assistance of those same untrained parents who often have a chip on their shoulders against school is not going to work for any but the odd student who has parents able and willing to help them, and if the students are simply learning nothing at school and doing most of it at home via homework, you might as well do home ed..

In order to help the disadvantaged, it should be made possible to do schoolwork in school, supervised by someone who presumably cares about the children's education and is trained to teach. If a teacher can't control a class, and if the school culture has gone to the dogs completely, time for the teachers/ HTs to pack it in or come up with a solution that involves taking back control of the classroom first and foremost.

Mathanxiety - I think you forst point is valid and sadly true for some families. In this case the school has a duty to try and maximise home school relationships. In a previous role I used to send home information letters about homework and try and make it quite accessible as I was working a highly deprived area and needed to get parents on board and give the info they needed to help them understand what it was we needed to do.

Math on your second point I agree but there are instances when parents who sign a home school learning contract re uniform attendance etc will complelty undermine the classroom teacher by refusing for example to allow their child to attend a detention for non completion of homework this then send the message to the students that teachers authority can be sidestepped, most teacher will be quick to tell you a number of similar stories and ones that include colleagues doing the same. It is not always a case of just homework or just behaviour or just poor teaching.

love, thanks for listing all those factors. That makes sense.

At primary level, the focus should be on teaching the 3 Rs or whatever are the core subjects to a high standard and getting rid of PC or nanny-state type interventions into re-balancing poor parenting. Teachers should be allowed to get on with the business of teaching, and that includes removing unnecessary admin, targets, even chronically disruptive children.

Then surely the way forward is to eliminate detention from the consequences? The DCs stay in during lunch to complete homework they haven't turned in when they get to age 9 and beyond. This has happened once for DD4, several times as far as I remember for DS a few years back. They miss lunch until the work is completed.

If non-compliance with the homework policy is a big issue for the school and if teachers have to devote a lot of time explaining homework to the parents, maybe it really is just counter productive?

You are right to say you can't just isolate one factor that once fixed means smooth sailing for all though.