to think that parents who moan about their kids gettting too much homework..........

[rudolphsmum]

........to think that parents who moan about there kids getting too much homework can't then expect them to do well in exams.

If my son is finding something difficult I sit and explain it to him and if I can't I speak to his teacher. The most recent complaint I heard was that one mum spoke to the head teacher about her daughter finding homework hard but that she wasn't interested because all she is cares about is the school getting good results ....sorry I thought that was what a good head teacher was supposed to be concerned about.

There seems to be a certain group of parents that send there kids to school and expect all learning to go on between 9-3 Mon - Fri and then wonder why their children struggle and before anyone starts on about children being to tired or need to play and relax when they get home, I am not talking about hours of the stuff either - ok rant over ;)

Just my two pennorth, how comes DD year 7 has about 9 pieces of homework a week. Ds year 10 and doing GCSEs has only about 4 pieces. So even if his take twice as long (and Maths certainly doesn't) that still means she has far more than him.

I didn't do homework at primary school, and fortunately the primary doesn't really do any except reading.

If the DCs ever had trouble with homework, couldn't understand, etc., I sent a note to the teacher to that effect. I think it's a bad idea to try to teach your child something they genuinely haven't managed to understand at school unless you're a teacher and know what you're doing. Plus, it's not the realistic feedback that presumably the teacher seeks when she assigns the homework.

I've been lucky in that the sort of homework Nooka described has been the norm for the DCs, with the odd blip (find a newspaper article (no violent events please), summarise it, and draw a picture -- not realistic for age 7 imo). I sent a note about the newspaper thing because the DD who had to so it simply couldn't make head or tail of the article and summarising was beyond her even with who, where, what, when, how type prompts. The teachers have sent instructions about homework every year, including how much time they think it should take, and they have encouraged feedback.

I do think homework has the value Nooka mentioned, and it also teaches time management skills and encourages forward planning -- how are you going to fit in your three favourite programmes and dinner and homework and a shower before bedtime, and are you willing to tell Miss R tomorrow that you couldn't fit in the homework, is something that my 9 yo struggles with, but the time management and the decision-making process involved in prioritising activities are important.

I think that parents who complain about too much homework should come and live in Italy (you know, one of those places, "on the continent" where they don't start school until they're 6).....and then get a minimum of 3 hours homework every day for the rest of their school lives.

pissedoff: "Failure at eleven means ineffective teaching. Don't you know anything?

We have failure at eleven. In a system where the basics are being sent home in homework bags for the parents to instil.

Er I think they might just be connected."

No, they are not necessarily connected. For your dcs' school, homework is a symptom of poor teaching. For my dcs' school, homework reinforces generally good teaching.

Sorry your dcs' school is crap. But it is clouding your reasoning. My dcs' school is good and they have homework from reception year. Their students will probably pull away from the struggling ones even more, with homework reinforcing lessons.

That's life. But no reason for my dcs' school to not have homework just because your dcs' is not teaching the basics during school hours.

Hope I have spelt this simple piece of reasoning out for you enough.

' I've been in school helping children read, I've done it at hme and I've seen exacly how children are disadvantaged'

Childen are disadvantaged because they come from a home where parent's don't talk to them, read to them, do jigsaws, help them with construction toys, play cards and board games,let them cook, plant things in the garden, go for walks, play music etc etc. They are not disadvantaged because they don't do boring old worksheets with them (very often what primary homework consists of). They have formal learning at school and they don't need more when they get home, it eats into the time where they could really be learning about life.
Primary schools never used to give homework, they were forced into it by parents who would rather they sat down with 20 maths questions than spend an hour playing Monopoly with them.

I don't expect my ds to do well in his exams. He lost his confidence in primary because he just wasn't ready to do what he was asked- he has never regained it. He was literally exhausted by the time he got home. And however well I explained the homework, he didn't understand it. And certainly wasn't physically able to do the writing that went with it.

mummytime- my older daughter and my son have both just been through the same school doing GCSEs in the last two years, often with the same teachers. My son two years often only had about 4-5 pieces of homework a week, my daughter seems to have about 3 pieces a night. Either 1) the teachers have seriously changed their tack since 2008 when DS was in Y11 on how much homework to give, or 2) something else was at play... My money's on 2) in my children's case. My son did not do as well as he could have at GCSE, my daughter is set to do very well indeed.

If I were you I would probe further your DS's hw situation...

cat64 what a brilliant post.

Hatesponge your experience echos mine. DDs are at grammar school and DD2 is in Year 8. Her best friend goes to the local comp and gets, on average, 3 pieces of homework a week compared to DD2's 17-19 pieces. I would add that she does not live in the same county as us.

DD2s massive quantities of homework are in no way a negative reflection of the teaching of the school. She is expected to sit at least 3 GCSEs early and her school is nationally one of the top state schools.

rightpissedoff I have no idea from where your experience of UK schools is drawn, but here in Lincolnshire the schooling system is excellent and I have chosen it above privately educating them (was privately educated myself).

Homework is optional at my DCs school but this is never spoken about. There are parents taking it very seriously and spending several hours a week with their DCs in the evening making sure that every line is perfectly straight and every model is an exact replica of whatever it is meant to be representing. Then, there are others who have a blank homework diary - nothing written in it from either side since September (other than the child's name on the front). In some cases, I am not sure the parents know how to read the instructions even.
However, everyone is happy this way.

My reasoning is not clouded. Basically, I have a clue, and you don't.

The statistics demonstrate failure, not "my school".

I look at the statistics, and I look at how the curriculum works, and I work it out.

It ain't that hard.

Exotic fruits, you are quite right -- partly.

There are the failings of parents which necessitate more formal teaching in schools.

However these are parents who were often badly educated themselves and have been since the dumbing down of education since the seventies, child-led learning and "chanting is oppressive" and why do the children need to face the teacher and all that stuff.

If every parent was well off, educated and committed it STILL wouldn't work. The curriculum needs to change.

Blueshoes: what is wrong with nobody having homework and you going and getting your own worksheets? Why do the worst off children have to suffer because you can't be arsed to get your own stuff organised?

My DCs only started getting homework at age 6 or 7, i.e., when everyone in the class had learned to read and write. Up to then parents were exhorted to read a lot to the children.

The exceptions were the one weekend when the class mascot was taken home and a diary of the eventful two days was compiled on Sunday afternoon and the exercise where the children were to fill out a big poster with facts all about themselves and glue on a photo. They also had to do show and tell once a week so finding an interesting object and thinking a little about what to say about it was homework once a week -- but this didn't require reading or writing, just gathering your thoughts.

I don't think children suffer at all from having no homework until all can read and writing is coming along. Not all parents can handle it and it causes problems in the parent child relationship and sometimes even in the imparting of the skills it's supposed to develop.

When I was in primary school (there was no homework) I used to spend lots of my free time reading books and writing stories and doing little 'projects' on things like weather or the solar system etc. Wouldn't have had time to do those things if I'd had to spend hours every night filling in pointless 'worksheets' or doing whatever busy-work had been thought up to fill the alloted number of homework hours in the school policy, and it would probably have sucked a lot of the joy and fun out of learning for me.

I really don't see the point of homework for young children, especially as from what I hear (and read on here) lots of it ends up being done mostly by the parents anyway. In secondary school yes you probably do need to spend some time after school studying for exams and working on your coursework, but even then don't agree with homework being given just for the sake of it.

pissedoff: "Blueshoes: what is wrong with nobody having homework and you going and getting your own worksheets? Why do the worst off children have to suffer because you can't be arsed to get your own stuff organised?"

Actually I pay the school to get my dcs' stuff organised. Then I do the homework with them - the homework is set at the right level and gives me a good idea of what my dcs are doing at school and which areas they need to improve.

That is the benefit of an independent education. Almost all independent schools have some form of homework. They are the best performing schools in the country, and the envy of the world.

But feel free to dumb down the education for the majority of students in UK. Doing away with homework won't improve the poor curriculum. You should attack the curriculum/teaching, not the homework which is just a red herring.

I have never done my dd's homework for her. I have guided her, asked her to correct re-consider and correct wrong answers. But I have never done it for her.

Agree there is no point in homework at such high a level that parents have to do it. That is silly and poor teaching.

My daughter has no problems at all doing her homework and piles through it quite well. However I am the one wtih the problem - she is 6 ffs!! I didnt have homework until I was about 11 and did v well academically. The whole thing is a nonsense and I dont think they should have any for at least a couple more years. Once again - 6 YEARS OLD!!!! She should be playing!!!

I don't think children suffer at all from having no homework until all can read and writing is coming along. Not all parents can handle it and it causes problems in the parent child relationship and sometimes even in the imparting of the skills it's supposed to develop.

Yes but on here there are DCs for whom this seems to be happening at 2 (or even 1!)

if your children go to an independent school they are not obliged to stick to the nc

it's the nc which dumbs down and hw can't make up for it

and homework is the problem at primary for many children

it simply isn't necessary and should be a bonus

your anecdotes prove nothing -- it's just your experience

read other people's experiences of committed parents but exhausted children

but oh -- you're alright jack so you don't need to

pissedoff: "and homework is the problem at primary for many children"

Repeating something ad nauseam does not make it right. In fact, it is the sure sign of a weak argument and a closed (if not somewhat jaundiced) mind.

Explain yourself.

As for your "I look at the statistics, and I look at how the curriculum works, and I work it out. It ain't that hard."

That is laughable. Once again, explain yourself. You are not making any substantive points. You are just saying I am right.

Where is the connection between homework and a poor curriculum?

My own experience is that many children in lower primary are exhausted by 3 o'clock. What they need is fresh air and exercise- not more sitting still and learning.
Obviously this is not going to affect the bright or very mature/sedentary children in the same way- to them, learning is not that hard. But to a 5yo child who has to struggle even to sit still and listen, 6 1/2 hours is quite enough. And very few 5yos are mature enough to learn any time management skills by organising their own homework; that bit has to be done by a parent anyway. A little reading aloud to a parent seems quite enough for this age group.

In upper primary I think homework has more of a place, not least because the children can organise it themselves- so they are learning something new that they wouldn't necessarily be learning at school. I think it does my ds good to have to remember his homework and make sure he plans his evenings so as to make room for it. But then he is in Yr 6 and will soon be in secondary, where he will have to write long projects and plan things that take weeks to do- so a little practice doesn't hurt him.

Bluesoes you don't even know what you're talking about. You've done the right thing, sending your children private, but it does mean you don't know what you're talking about.

I didn't just repeat it, and I've explained it before -- it's hardly my fault if you're struggling to understand.

You are almost a lone voice here, among teachers and parents. Which doesn't make you wrong, but it does make it obvious that you believe your limited experience outside of the public sector is far more informing and enlightening than that of many other people inside -- and in fact,I doubt you've even read the posts from committed parents who have seen homework put their child off school, make them exhausted and damage their relationship with learning.

That's fine, enjoy, you think what you think. Private schools do primary far better than state, and if I were you I would stay there.

But it does mean you haven't got a gnat's testicle of a clue about this despite you attempts to be patronising. Flitter back to fairy land.

I do wonder when people go on about the "poor curriculum" in state education, whether they actually know what that curriculum consists of. It seems to be recieved wisdom that it's rubbish, but nobody actully says why.

It's not the quantity of homework I object to, it's the quality. Homework assignments for primary school children are usually such cr-p, so poorly explained and too open ended. We once had to do 'drawings of all the insects you can find in your garden'. Poor son in tears, took him half an hour to draw one stupid bug. No learning value whatsoever. And that wasn't one of the worst - we've had much worse!