Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that grammar schools should limit the number of places available to private school kids

286 replies

reallytired · 05/02/2011 21:05

Many grammer schools are over loaded with private school kids. Bright state school kids just can not compete. It is a massive advantage being in a class of 8 with specialist teachers and no SEN kids.

I think that the number of places for privately educated kid should be limited to the percentage of private school kids in the area. Ie. if 10% of kids in a town go to private school then 10% of places should be reserved for private school kids and 90% of places should be for everyone else.

It would then give poor state school families a chance. My son got mostly level 3s at his key stage 1 SATS and is on the top table in his class for every subject, but his school does not think he would get a place at the only grammar in the area. Its crazy. Its no wonder that social mobility is at an all time low.

OP posts:
MrsRichardHammond · 05/02/2011 22:24

Do you think he would have got into the grammar had he gone to the state primary?

MrsRichardHammond · 05/02/2011 22:24

Sorry let me rephrase, do you feel he would stand a lesser chance of getting into the grammar if he attended your local state primary?

MollieO · 05/02/2011 22:28

Ds will be going to state secondary as he has every right to do. If the schools in our area offered wraparound care he'd be in state primary now. However I work full time, none of the CMs in the village do the hours I need and ds's old CM quoted such an astronomical increase in fees that it was cheaper to pay school fees.

I had planned to keep him with his CM but she decided she didn't want to do the school run having seemIngly been happy to do it for 2 yrs when he was at nursery. She then had a rethink and agreed to do it but at a fee increase of 65%! Couldn't find another CM to do the hours and the school run so didn't have much choice.

When Ds was at the village nursery I was the only full time working mother they had.

Not everyone at private school is wealthy and as I've already said not every school preps for 11+.

MrsRichardHammond · 05/02/2011 22:29

Ouch that smarts Mollie!

I'm not making a personal dig at anyone btw - i've said myself due to my own experiences of Grammar school education i do NOT want my child going to one. I'm just curious as to how the education thing works and the reasoning behind choices.

onimolap · 05/02/2011 22:30

I'm not the person to whom that question was aimed, but I think it would be unwise to assume that there is a good or outstanding primary school available to every parent.

And under a scenario of "no private schools" how would one deal with the equally unfair scenario of private tutoring which the affluent would easily access? Sticking plaster measures based on a view of what previous social backgrounds are acceptable is not the way to go.

mamatomany · 05/02/2011 22:31

Can i ask though, those of you with children in private primary education what are your goals, educationally, for your children?

I would very much prefer that DD1 stays in the private system if i'm honest for all the reasons we chose private primary in the first place.
It's unfortunate but if you live in a grammar school area the top 20% are creamed off the top and then even if you are in top set in the schools that are left there is this underlying feeling knowing you aren't getting as good an education as the children up the road (whether that is true is an entirely different matter but since VA scores are no longer available how do you make a decision ?)
If she hadn't have passed the 11+ I'd have gone on bread and water to keep her in private though.

jumpingcastles · 05/02/2011 22:32

DS aged 7 has won a sports scholarship at his prep school and will start using this in Sept for Year 3. We will make a choice for whats best for him nearer the time but will not hesitate to go to grammar if he passes the 11+. However, if he gets another scholarship, I would chose an Indie school.

DD is only 4 so to early to call.

To answer your other question, yes my kids would stand a lesser chance of getting into the grammars because the local schools does not actively encourage entrance into grammer. However, as I am very much interested in my childrens education, I would tutor them myself.

WhatsWrongWithYou · 05/02/2011 22:34

Sorry not entering into discussion on your op, nor have I read the whole thread I'm afraid (but I will come back to it).
Just wanted to urge you not to listen to your son's teacher. State primaries' official line, certainly in our area, is not to support grammar schools or prepare children for the 11+. They are totally divorced from the whole system and are unlikely to have a realistic idea of a child's chances of success.
A mother I know was told not to bother with it for her DD, who went on to be placed in the top ten for the county. She is now being told the same thing for her younger DD Hmm.
if I were you my anger would be directed a teacher who, ignorant of what's actually required, nevertheless cynically downplays the chances of success of one of her pupils.
And, btw, the 11+ is a completely different exam from anything that will have been covered in primary, and they're not allowed to practice it with the children - if you need further proof of the shit she's spouting.

jumpingcastles · 05/02/2011 22:34

apologies for spelling mistakes!

mamatomany · 05/02/2011 22:38

Many of the primary school teachers locally "don't believe in the 11+" which begs the question of why they are teaching in an area with GS locally, I suspect it's because they are in a nice leafy area with no problem children to deal with who's parents are attracted to the area by the 11+.
The number of times we were told it's better to be top of the class at school x with it's 30% pass of fiddled GCSE results than bottom of school y who send 80% to university.
I know where I'd rather be.

MollieO · 05/02/2011 22:38

Sorry! Wasn't meant to be but I do get a bit fed up with the standard assumptions MN when not all circumstances are the same. I've just been made redundant so Ds may have to move schools before the end of primary. When I called the local state schools this week to ask about wraparound care they had no idea what I was talking about.

alistron1 · 05/02/2011 22:39

Arrggghhh... state, grammar, private....none of it matters really. As long as parents are switched on and motivated it's all rather moot.

Yes private kids will probably get into the grammars - but is that a cast iron guarantee to greatness?...of course not. I know of many private ed. kids who are floundering in the grammar system.

Bog standard comps - do they cater for the bright kids? Yes they do and in my experience the teaching and subject content is more challenging and interesting than that at the 'established' grammars.

Also teenagers will be teenagers and across the grammars, comps and private schools there will always be issues with bullying, drugs, bad behaviour etc..

MrsRichardHammond · 05/02/2011 22:41

I think thats standard sadly Mollie. Knowing a fair number of teachers they nearly all take the stance "we're not free childcare" and resent the idea of wrap around care. Lovely.

Thing is though if you do want your child to go to grammar school you can get practice papers and work through them with your child - no need for a tutor, they're easy enough! :)

newwave · 05/02/2011 22:41

If you go to a private primary school and reject the state system then you should be at the back of the queue for any state Grammar or comp school.

jumpingcastles · 05/02/2011 22:45

newwave

really? Confused

I think many parents who have no other alternative will not like that idea of yours!

mamatomany · 05/02/2011 22:46

Bullshit newwave, you dip in and out as required, it works both ways is the door barred to those parents who couldn't save enough to pay for private primary, should they not be allowed in because they haven't supported the school from day one but suddenly find the funds when the results of the 11+ drop on their doormat and aren't what they hoped for ?

Willabywallaby · 05/02/2011 22:46

He didn't get in to our local state primary, and the one he was allocated is under special measures so I think that would have affected his chances. He's only just over a term into his schooling, I don't know his academic abilities at the moment. His school also advises whether or not to sit the 11+, but this may be do they can up their % that pass.

rupaul · 05/02/2011 22:48

I think we should all go to Kelsey GrammEr schools.

MrsRichardHammond · 05/02/2011 22:50

What isn't widely known is how expensive it is to put your child through Grammar School. My uniform was so much more expensive than that of my siblings then the expectation to have your own hockey stick and tennis racquet, science lab coats, 'branded' PE Kit, uniform from a specialist shop (all of it not just the blazer!), only allowed to choose from 3 styles of shoes, regulation coat, scarf, extra curricular activities (which they expect you to take part in at least one), trips abroad (of which at least 2 are offered per school year)...

Social and academic issues aside i personally could not financially afford a grammar school education for my daughter!! (I have no doubt she is bright enough to pass her exams though).

MrsRichardHammond · 05/02/2011 22:50

BTW branded kit was the school logo stuff not nike etc

curlymama · 05/02/2011 22:52

I know of many private ed. kids who are floundering in the grammar system.

Exactly! That would be because they have been so heavily tutored and prepared for the 11+, they have passed the exam without actually having the intelligence to keep up with the standard of work.

mamatomany · 05/02/2011 22:54

Really ? I can't believe it's any worse than any other school Mrs RH. I was really shocked at the amount of kit required for senior school full stop, my neighbours sons cost £300 per year to kit out, 2 types of rugby shirts, goodness knows what else and this is an ordinary comp.

jumpingcastles · 05/02/2011 22:54

MrsRichard

Second Hand Uniform Sale is the best thing that has happened to us! I got my DS a blazer at £25, price at new is £82!

WhatsWrongWithYou · 05/02/2011 22:54

Absolutely right, Mrs Hammond - papers can be downloaded for free, as can methods of tackling the different types of questions.
A tutor is not necessary - and I agree with whoever said your child's educational outcome is vastly improved the more time and attention you're willing to give to it yourself.

< learning this for real now, with two at grammar and one now preparing for 11+ >

jumpingcastles · 05/02/2011 22:55

Curlymama

I suppose state school children DO NOT flounder at grammar?