to think that "fat shops" like Evans and Ann Harvey don't do their customers any favours by making their sizes much larger than they usually are?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Was in London last week, nipped into both. Tried on jeans in Evans, even a size 16 was too big (and I am SO not a 16). Went into Horrible Ann Harvey, Polyester Queen, and overheard the woman saying to a customer, "No, the sizes come up much bigger than in regular shops. If you're a size 16 in M & S, there won't be anything here to fit you."

Is this not going to lull porkers (I am one, I am allowed to say that) into a false sense of their own size, if they think, oh I am "only" a size 16, which is not too bad, when actually they are probably a 22+ in "normal" shops?

Lying if you are so sensitive about people disagreeing with you maybe you shouldn't be on a chatboard. HTH :)

Alternatively you could try engaging in the debate rather than telling people to get a grip - or would that involve actually using logic?

For example;
do you think it is ok for a random stranger to call someone a "porker" knowing it is usually seen as demeaning?

If you don't think it is ok, do you think it is ok for someone to call a group of people porkers, still knowing it is usually seen as a demeaning term?

Another question, why do you think people use the word "porker" to describe overweight people? Do you think there are any non-offensive connotation to it?

KalokiMallow... We could go around in circles forever on this...

I'm not sensitive, I shrug things off easily. I accept that others don't. I can't understand why, for those who really take things to heart, that they would choose to post on a board where they might not like what is said.

Answering your questions now:
'Demeaning' is a word that some would use, others wouldn't. Whether it's ok for a stranger to call somebody a 'porker', perhaps it isn't... what are you going to do about it? It's not against the terms here so those affected can either shrug it off or not.

Ditto question 2.

Hmmm... depends whether you've had younger brothers or beloved grandads who say inappropriate things, not realising that they're being taken to heart. Other people use far worse terms to describe the overweight, the red-headed, the glass-wearers, etc. There is always going to be an offensive connotation isn't there, otherwise it wouldn't be called name-calling and wouldn't have the pearl-clutching affect it seems to.

'Get a grip' is a suggestion only... I don't presume to tell people what to do - or what to post - and therein lies the difference. Logic doesn't come in to it really, people have differing opinions and there are no right or wrong ones here.

I personally think it's ridiculous, given the OP, that she's been jumped on for using the term 'porker'. That's my opinion.

I think M&S are small compared to everywhere else - I am usually a size 16 or 18 bottoms - depending on shops but M&S I need at least a 20 and then they are snug - or an 18 that digs in

So, if it isn't demeaning, what do you think porker means?

Also, do you mean to say that the people who are being offended are in the wrong, whereas those doing the offending are ok? And somehow it is someone's fault they are offended? Really?

Oh good grief...

'Porker' means plump or fat in my book.

Are offended people in the wrong? No. Are people who offend in the wrong? Yes. Is it someone's fault they are offended? No, but for heavens sake, if they are offended by being plump or fat then that's for them to tackle.

Name-calling isn't nice but it's something that most people learn to deal with (effectively) at an early age.... or they will if they have parents who teach them to because they'll certainly face worse in life than being called a 'porker'.

When did we become such a bleating society? Full of people puffed up with their rights of entitlement?

Does anybody bother to converse with you in real life? Is anybody else allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours? Really? Your posts scream 'foul' with each one, no scope for debate, just the favourite 'offended' smiley.

It's not just oversize shops - the top end of the market do it too. If you've ever shopped in Whistles or Jaeger etc, their clothes come up massive. I am a 10 in Whistles which I haven't been for about 20 years.

well do you honnestly think fat people have never heard that before Lying?

If it was that easy for them don't you think they would have tackled it? In this day and age, people are getting fatter than ever before, and with all the advances in physical and mental healt services, this is still happening, personal attacks, bullying and picking on people doesn't work.

You will find that some fat people have an eating disorder in a lot of cases, just the same as anorexia and bulemia are eating disorders.

These sort of arguments and comments I have heard on here, were the reason there are now why there are laws agasint personally attacking someone for their religious choices, race, sexuality and disability.

ENTITLEMENT? wtf?

i am ENTITLED to walk down the street without people calling me names. whether fat , thin, ugly, blonde, fat arse or boney ankled... it matters not.

you cannot say its ok to call fat people names because they are fat and they should do something about it if they dont like it. that is the attitude of a total bully. grown ups just do not act that way at all.

Lying - seeing as you don't seem to be able to see what porker actually means, let's try this.

Do you know what pork is? What animal is that from? What are pigs known for? Are they known for gobbling up food and being fat? Are they also known for not being very attractive?

Now tell me porker is somehow not offensive at all.

Again I ask, if it isn't any more offensive than "overweight" then why is it the kind of word likely to be used by someone trying to be offensive?

As for "No, but for heavens sake, if they are offended by being plump or fat then that's for them to tackle." So it's their fault? They've brought it on themselves have they?

"Name-calling isn't nice but it's something that most people learn to deal with (effectively) at an early age.... or they will if they have parents who teach them to because they'll certainly face worse in life than being called a 'porker'."

I'd have said the responsibility is on people learning not to be offensive, rather than people not being offended.

As Custardo says, I think we are perfectly entitled not to have people using derogatory terms against us.

MummieHunnie... No, I don't think there are any fat people who haven't heard that before. I was answering a question from an earlier poster. I do think it is up to people to take responsibility for themselves and their own health, that's my opinion.

Custardo... I didn't say that it was ok to call people names. Where did I say it was ok? You might be entitled to walk down the street without someone calling you a name but you can't stop it happening if someone is that ill mannered.

I personally don't call anybody any names. Other people do. How that is handled has to be down to the individual - ignore it or.... what?

Are you the extreme sports, cigarette, drugs and alcohol police too?

Kaloki... I understand what porker means, thank you, it's a pig. In addition to the points you've raised pigs are known for being clean animals, pink and good pets.

If someone called me a 'porker' I'd laugh. It's not the term that's offensive, it's whether it's received as such.

You have absolutely no control over what other people will call you, you only have control over how much satisfaction you will give them in their rudeness.

You might be perfectly entitled to not be called rude names, but you have no remedy to that happening if it does.

Do you see where I'm coming from or must it only be myself that is browbeaten to see things from your perspective?

MummieHunnie... are you asking me that? If so, no, is the answer.

So people taking care of their health is not really your interest then, it was a convenient excuse to defend youself, is that what you are telling us?

MummieHunnie... Why do I have to defend myself? Against what and whom exactly?

I think people should take personal responsibility for their health in so far as a choice can be made. What's wrong with that?

You are coming across as only policing the fat.

MummieHunnie... I'm not policing anything or anybody. I must admit to being a bit taken aback by your post earlier where you refer to the law as a remedy for discrimination. You cite sexuality, disability, race etc. As far as I'm aware, there's is no legislation protecting those against 'Fatists'. I wouldn't have dreamed of setting the rights of the disabled, etc. in the same vein.

I've answered your questions, I'm not lecturing or heckling or name calling and I'm certainly not policing you or anybody else. I have my own opinions, they just obviously don't accord with yours.

From a post Kaloki made earlier stating that people should be taught to not call names, I didn't answer that but I agree - they should - in the same way that kids need to be taught 'sticks and stones', so that they can progress through life without having to resort to violence or retaliation in response to being called stupid names.

'because they are fat and they should do something about it

Why do people always do that?

my weight gradually snuck on after eyars of being low; it was only when I felt good about myself again and got a bit of a sense of worth that I coudl tackle it.

People won;t get themselves healthier (the only I bit I give a stuff about) if they feel they are not worthy of such a focus / feel so low they want to be invisible. But for some reason so many seem to think that's how to go about it. Bizarre and misguided.

OK...I apologise unreservedly to anyone who was offended by my use of the word "porker". I did think what word to use, and thought a little gentle humour might work OK. Clearly I was wrong. But I am still at a loss to know what word I could have used. I could have said Fatties, Fat, Overweight, Obese, but I thought that any of these had the potential to offend someone. Plump? Larger Laydees? You see, it's a bit of a minefield. And I think there would always have been someone who was offended whatever I said.

@JacquelineHyde - I worked at NATO for five years...

"I personally don't call anybody any names. Other people do. How that is handled has to be down to the individual - ignore it or.... what?"

How about call them on it and tell them not to? Or does this make us over sensitive?

It is excess fat cells that cling to the internal organs and under the skin that cause the extra weight, so using the word Fat, to describe someone carrying extra fat sounds right to me personally.

"Fatties, Fat, Overweight, Obese"

Overweight is factual.

MrsSchedenfreude... You're brave!

Kaloki... Well as I've just said that I'm not policing, how about those who are offended call them on it and tell them not to?

... or is it not so easy in real life as on a chat board?

But what about someone who is 6'4", very fit and muscular, and a size 20? They probably wouldn't be fat. Or, necessarily, overweight.

We do.. we also do it on forums and then people tell us we are being over sensitive and somehow looking to be offended