To think that our expectations of babies behaviour in this country are too high?

[Tryharder]

There seems to have been a lot of threads around at the moment along the lines of "my baby is 5 weeks old and still won't sleep through the night" and "my baby won't go 4 hours between feeds, is she just greedy" or "my baby wants to be picked up a lot - is she just manipulative?" You get the picture....

Have just read a post about someone who left a very young baby to cry it out (don't ask me to link) and they are all smug about it because "it worked".

It makes me so cross and sad for the babies concerned who are subject to draconian regimes. Why are we so negative about babies in this country and so determined from Day one to impose on them a routine that makes our lives convenient, not theirs.

I know I will be flamed .

Routines sort of go out the window with baby no 2. anyway...you might have decided to feed baby 2 at 10am, but you can guarrantee that first child chooses that time to do a poo or something. In which case, baby 2 gets fed later.

Most people go for a happy medium...feeding new borns frequently, beginning to follow a rhythmn when the baby takes sleeps at more set times, to getting to that toddler routine of three meals a day, an afternoon sleep and a bedtime at roughly the same time each evening.

The trick is to not read too many books, know what the medical advice is and to enjoy yourself with the baby.

I think people should learn how to parent a young baby from their young baby, not misguided people who loves to advise. Of course leaving a young baby to cry is horrid, in my mind until they're about 9 months there's no behaviour just need.

Can't imagine being able to listen to my baby scream without wanting to make it stop, not just because I care but it sends me beyond mad. I feel like running into a wall with the noise!

I have had four dcs, all of which have found their own routines which are gently directed at me. Older two slept through at 10 wks, the second two more like 6 mths...or older, I have a cloudy memory.

Expecting my third DS in 4 weeks and like the others will not push them into a routine...Strongly believe babies get there in their own time and both of my older ones slept through within the first year, fell into quite natural routines themselves, they settle themselves very happily (without having to do CC) though it was stressful and inconvenient at times to be more baby led. Think you can "guide" them into routines, but to force them and leave them to cry feels wrong! I always wonder when first timers say "mine slept through within xxx weeks" whether its the truth or just competitiveness and the pressure to have the "perfect" child!

However, am sure some children do respond to stricter routines.

It's OK, whatever gets people through IYSWIM, If superiority works better than caffeine and Berocca then go for it.

But in future if people could post potentially upsetting things about poor babies who sleep well in the wee small hours while I am sound asleep and don't see it that would be much appreciated...

cherub...no competitive parenting here, although I will admit that my practically non crying, easy sleeping, happy, no pain teething babies were all because I was such a good mother!! (Ahem that was put to rest with the next two, reflux, screaming, non sleepers!!)

By the way, I never mention DDs sleeping as I am afraid of jinxing it. As she is my 2nd I am well aware that it will almost certainly all change in the future. But a post worrying about/pitying my DD for her own internal body clock forced me to.

Bubbleyummy that is your viewpoint, and to me your reaction to my pretty reasonable post confirms that there are people who are hardline at both ends and then those like myself (and most Mums I think) who are somewhere in the middle. That is fine as we are all entitled to rear our children in what we see as the 'right' way.

Also it depends on what you view as controlled crying. I wouldnt let my 2 year old DD cry for 10 minutes withuot some reassurance, never mind a small baby

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what kind of parenting you do as long as you and your child are healthy and happy. Different strokes for different folks etc.
What makes it difficult are the people, usually family/in law members who criticize every decision you make. I tend to brush it off with a sympathetic smile, and look at the very obvious parenting mistakes that they have made, accept that I will no doubt make as many, and continue as I was.

Londonlottie - good post

In my experience (emphasis on my, not trying to generalise) with my circle of friends of acquaintances, there were:

• the parents who were most eager to get babies sleeping through and into a routine quickly were the ones who have either not been married/together long and/or didn't want their lives to change too much after having a child. (Dare I say it, some were younger mothers who have had unrealistic expectations of what having a baby entails.)

• the parents who were super-organised, had busy lives and need DCs to fit into that. Fair enough. Before DD was born I thought I might be like this - wrong!

• the parents like myself and DH who had been together longer, got the travel, career and most life experiences we wanted to do done, were more-than-ready to start a family and give our DCs more of our time and patience (within reason).

• the parents with babies who genuinely did thrive on routine and slept through the night from day three.

I personally have seen most other babies I know sleep through/sleep better than my DD earlier but I think the payoff now she's a bit older is that she is not 100% wedded to a routine, can be reasonably flexible so that we can do things "out of the ordinary" when it suits us to do so. Not saying we have been completely baby-led either, but somewhere in the middle.

As others have said...whatever gets you through. Each child is different.

Each to their own!

Carolina - what reaction? All I did was point out that cc is not recommended for babies under 6 months.

'needed us to do' - I very much doubt that your dd needed you to use cc. Did she need to sleep? Yes. Did you use cc to achieve that? Yes. That does not mean that it was the only option or the only one that would have worked. Your baby, your choice but ding try to suggest it was the ONLY way - it was just the way that you chose.

Ding= don't

I have that problem with DD in the day time Stealth. How old was your DD when you bit the bullet?

I don't think anyone here is anti routine. Only anti forcing a routine on a vulnerable little creature who cannot regulate their emotions enough to know that everything is ok if no-one responds to them. Which no-one on this thread has advocated.

The damage crying does was when left completely alone if I remember rightly, from the fear of abandonment. Not from crying while bring held, colic or whathaveyou. That seems like a random thought jump but someone was discussing it earlier, can't remember who.

Manipulative form a month old...............

time to give MN a rest, I think.

Surely the brain isn't capable of the complex thought processes required to be manipulative at 1 mo?

Why is a terrified cry more important than an 'I need you mummy, where are you?' cry?

Sorry Stranded!

Ninkynonker - there is no evidence that sleep training does any damage whatsoever.

I haven't looked into it either way, there was a debate a few pgs back discussing the effect of crying for prolonged periods on small babies that's all, the bit I have seen was based around crying alone. Cc is different from my understanding in that the child isn't left. Not explaining myself well as on phone under sleeping baby, sorry.