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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Need input here please-desperate.

138 replies

L0ST · 28/01/2011 15:04

This is going to be a long first post, please bear with me. I'm hoping to get a female perspective on this but men can feel free to chip in.
Background first. I'm male, we are in our 40's, married since '96. 11yo & 10yo kids. Great relationship till kids came along/work & life stresses ramped up. Mismatch of sex drives......the usual stuff. I am not the easiest to live with as I'm slightly Aspergers, have a terrible memory and probably have self esteem issues due to a very controlled upbringing (mother)that my wife has to put up with as well (though that problem is mostly better now). There is a lot of water under the bridge in our relationship (my stubbornness and inability to listen/remember issues etc.)which causes my wife deep resentment. We live in the UK.
I love my wife deeply and am very loyal.

The problem du jour:
A year ago my wife asked me if I minded her contacting an old boyfriend and another male friend on facebook (you can see whats coming).
I agreed, nice of her to ask.

A couple of months later she left her laptop open on a facebook conversation she was having with the male friend (married, doctor, USA)
She had written that she had seen a hunky cyclist that day and that had made her think of him. Oh dear, I thought. Best keep an eye on this......which I did from time to time till a few months later she changed her password.

I agonised over this and eventually installed a keylogger on her lappy. The password change coincided with her telling him that she would really like to "cuddle up to with him next top an open fire, mmmmm, what a lovely dream that would be". My heart sank.
Over the next months there were various other comments of a less worrying nature, her telling him how great her bottom looks (it does).....him telling her what great foot massages he gives......her telling him how all the nurses must fancy him.

They were messaging each other pretty much every day. After a few other flirty comments I finally decided to confront her in early December 2010.
She denied that her comments were any more than harmless banter and that she has no feelings for him and he "doesn't do anything for her" (sexually)
I pointed out that her statement didn't make sense given what she had written and how often they were in communication.
Eventually she admitted that she felt that she had "overstepped the mark" and that she enjoyed the attention from him.
She said that I had been right to spy on her and that she would have done the same.
I explained that in light of what they had been saying I was unhappy with her continuing to communicate with him but that I also felt guilty for wanting her to stop the communication.
She volunteered to communicate less frequently, stop flirting and eventually peter out the conversation.

I removed the keylogger but continued to monitor facebook (she said she was happy for me to do so and that I could bring up the subject whenever I wanted to as I was very upset about it and would need to talk)

A month later she deleted the conversation as well as all the facebook emails sent to her email addy (permanently from the 'deleted items' folder in outlook).

The new thread in facebook started mid conversation...
I asked her why she had deleted it ( I hadn't looked at it for a week) and she said that it had been accidental and that she had deleted the emails from him so that I wouldn't get upset if I noticed that they were there. Hmmmm.....
I pointed out that I had no way of knowing what they had discussed in the last week and that it made me suspicious of what had been said during that time.
She said that nothing untoward had been said and to put my mind at ease in the future, promised to never delete his emails from outlook or the facebook conversations again.

I quietly reinstalled the keylogger.

Yesterday I noticed that a new conversation had been started and that the first few posts had been deleted!! She had also deleted his emails!
I confronted her with this.
At first she denied deleting anything, then she "remembered" that she had written to him to tell him that I was aware of her being a little too "friendly" with him.
The keylogger also showed that she had expressed her dismay that she could no longer carry on the conversations like she used to with him. (she denies that's about the flirting, merely that she now feels awkward when she writes to him)
In addition she finally admitted that she had also deleted his reply to her (I had to drag all this out of her).

She is now upset with me for being suspicious of her and feels that since (she claims) nothing untoward was said in what was deleted I should draw a line under this. I pointed out that if nothing untoward was said that there was no need to delete anythin....
In addition I am now "being controlling", it's my problem and I have got to "deal with it" myself.
I replied that I want her to stop the correspondence immediately. She refused, saying that its her life and talking to him makes her happy. I pointed out that it makes me very unhappy. Her response was that its my problem since she is now doing nothing wrong in her conversations with him and that I should trust her(again).
Am I overreacting? Should I trust her? I don't know what to do. I love her deeply but I feel she has deceived me three times now.
She is steaming angry with me now btw....I think our marriage is on the rocks.

OP posts:

MrSpoc · 28/01/2011 16:01

so lets think of it this way. Ok there is a massive ocean between them but if things heat up whats to stop him flying over for a visit?

Or she gets friendly online with someone more local and starts flirting then decides to meet up.

This is not harmless and could quickly get out of hand.

dorisdazed · 28/01/2011 16:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GORGEOUSX · 28/01/2011 16:03

Lost why don't you start your own on-line flirtation and give her a taste of her own medicine - she might realise then how hurtful it is..... you lovely, sensitive man - bet you're as Gorgeous as I am.

redrollers · 28/01/2011 16:05

you're not overreacting
she has overstepped the mark, and she should be doing all she can to rebuild the trust

you should be able to get through it though, if you both want to

MrSpoc · 28/01/2011 16:06

dorisdazed he did that as a last resort (ok its wrong)

He said he logged on and found it open with all thses messages. He was concerend so started to moniter the relationship. Shortly after that she changed her passwords. (a big give away)

then he put the key logger on.

dorisdazed · 28/01/2011 16:08

I am not even sure that keylogging is entirely legal. Ethically it's disgusting. I find Lost disgusting for doing so.

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 28/01/2011 16:09

I dpn't think it's wrong to track someone on a pc if they're behaving in such a disgusting way, the poor guy didn't know what else to do ffs

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 28/01/2011 16:10

dorisdazed, you seem to have issues.... have you behaved in a similar way perhaps ?

dorisdazed · 28/01/2011 16:10

If phone hacking isn't legal then neither can keylogging be. He is as bad as her. That is controlling and abusive behaviour. I would love to hear her side. What a repulsive man.

Arion · 28/01/2011 16:10

Female perspective, if my dh was having conversations like this I would feel v hurt and if he kept on after I had made my feelings clear it could be a deal breaker. It shows a complete lack of respect for your feelings. Personally, if I had conversations like this, I would be worried about my marriage as these are the conversations you have with your partner/ husband. This guy might be over an ocean but what about the next "friendship"? Sorry if this post is negative. AIBU (am I being unreasonable) is for opinions. You might get some different perspectives from another thread eg relationships.

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 28/01/2011 16:11

I have a feeling dorisdazed is crapping herself her husband may be 'key logging' her [bwink]

dorisdazed · 28/01/2011 16:11

and no apocalypse I have been on the receiving end of a controlling and abusive partner who thought keylogging was ok. It isnt.

dorisdazed · 28/01/2011 16:12

you are such a twat apocalypse. I have a panic button in my property in case the said abusive partner who started off by key logging comes anywhere near me. Are you flirting with Lost?

TattyDevine · 28/01/2011 16:14

I'm surprised more hasn't been said about the keylogging as well Dorisdazed. If my DH did that, I'd buy a new laptop and password it up to hell, regardless of what I was or was not getting up to!

Anyhoos though I guess its not the main point of the discussion because he's been honest with her about the keylogger, and the keylogger itself doesn't seem to be the main issue in their marriage, though she has said it is controlling and it is.

I do sympathise with you LOST. She's behaving inappropriately. Regardless of all this though, you might find it does just naturally fizzle out. Or it might need to be taken to the next step. Either way, it indicates something in your marriage is missing as she's filling a gap. This is not necessarily your fault (and infedelity is never the cheated-on's "fault") however its not beyond your capability to try and fill the gap if you feel so inclined, and you needn't, as there is no guarantee.

That's not much help really sorry!

Got2Dance · 28/01/2011 16:15

I haven't read the whole thread, but have read the OP.

I think you are not over-reacting, but I think both you and your wife were being naive to think that toning down the communications would work. Once she over-stepped the mark with flirting (that she accepted) the "friend" should have been blocked.

As husbands and wives we need to protect our hearts from these things and be wise about what will and won't be helpful. And stop and walk away from any kind of relationship that is detracting from the marriage.

Good luck

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 28/01/2011 16:25

Flirting ??????????????? Where the FUCK do you people come from ??

Oh yeah, I must be, it's a person with a willy between his legs innit ?? [bhmm]

Grow the fuck up, under the circumstances he was entitled to do what he did.

curlymama · 28/01/2011 16:25

Doris, ther is a huge difference, and you have no reason to be that harsh to the OP.

You just said your ex was controlling, and abusive to the extent that you need a panic button. You were not doing anything wrong.

Lost's wife is doing something wrong, and Lost is not being controlling and abusive. He has been lied to and just wants to know the truth about what type of conversations his wife is having with someone she obviously enjoying inappropriate attention from.

Perhaps keylogging isn't the best thing to do, but what choice did he have? He has a trust issue, with good reason.

It's understandable that you have an issue with it after it being part of an abusive relationship, but you should be able to understand that this situation is completely different to yours.

CockneySparra · 28/01/2011 16:28

If you have to rely on spy ware to be sure she isn't cheating on you, your marriage is over.

ccpccp · 28/01/2011 16:40

YANBU OP.

Keylog all you want - the results have more than justified the means.

Your wife cannot be trusted and you need to do what you can to force this thing one way or the other. She either stays by your perfectly reasonable terms, or she goes.

Citrusfruit · 28/01/2011 16:41

Flame away!

I had a few flirty conversations with an ex on fb. He made me feel attractive and sexy again. I wouldn't leave dh for him, it was just a bit of fun and gave me the attention that I craved when dh was being inattentive.

So my advice would be to shower your wife with attention and love and she'll forget other man.

KatieScarlett2833 · 28/01/2011 16:54

My DH can install a keylogger if he likes. He's just spend hours reading me swearing and talking shite.

Fortuana · 28/01/2011 17:05

Funny story on the spying on spouse front. An aquaintance of my PH, had some severe trust issues and took it upon himself to install over £1k worth of surveillance equipment on a cheap (£400) runabout he had purchased for his girlfriend, only to be informed a few weeks later that her son had borrowed the car to go to a festival, crashed it, had it written off and consequently dumped at the nearest scrap merchants - albeit a few hundred miles from home. :o

RevoltingPeasant · 28/01/2011 17:11

Lost don't know if you're still there or what, but another thing....

Do you mind if I ask you, how good do you think you are at communicating your feelings verbally and in conversation? I ask because you mentioned you don't really have anyone to talk to IRL and I wonder if this means that you don't verbalise your feelings that effectively.

If this might be the case, could you show your wife this thread OR write down what you feel for her? You are very clear about your hurt here, but maybe she just doesn't see it? Or feels able to ignore it if it's expressed in a 'stilted' manner?

Sorry if that's making any judgements about the way your present yourself...

ramade · 28/01/2011 17:26

Well you've certainly had a baptism of fire on this thread! As someone else said, don't let the more extream responses get to you.

I don't think your marrage has to be over. Facebook flirting, the deceit and the snooping, none of that is great for a relationship, it will have damaged it greatly. However, I see them more like cries for help, signs which should tell you both, that something must done urgently.

The next chat you have, should not be a finger pointing session ("You did this, so I did that"). You need to get your heads together a decide a plan for changing things (relate etc).

KangarooCaught · 28/01/2011 17:32

You are right to feel hurt and right to ask your wife to stop. What she is doing is detrimental to your marriage. Assuming she sees the light, as a couple you will need to think of ways of strengthening your marriage.

There are some posters who come on later in the evening who also give very good relationships advice, even though this thread is not in that section.

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