to think that surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie?

[LadyOfTheManor]

Seriously, unless you're a miner or from a mining family, or Welsh... ok well even if you are, surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie T?

I'm a tad young, I was born in her "reign", but I did my degree in Politics and although I didn't really live under her (it was Major until I was 11) I couldn't see what she did that was SO terrible-let alone the sheer hostility when her name is mentioned here (in Wales!).

Because transport infrastructure is crucial to other sectors of the economy whilst coal mining isn't. I live near an ex coal mining region and am aware of the problems that these regions have but I don't think the state subsidisation of primary industries in a post-industrial economy is any part of the answer. We have to look at ways to make these areas more economically active, vibrant and competitive in a modern developed economy.

ItsGraceAgain - tell you what, if you object to the redundancies of the 1980s, nowadays etc, why don't you take someone on as home help, or as an au pair, a butler maybe?

You don't need one and, to do so would put your household finances in a right mess but so what? You'll be helping someone else out.

It might mean you both end up without money further down the line but, again, so what? You'll feel better about yourself and, seeing as sentimentality appears to be your main motivation, you can bask in self-congratulation whilst your children ask why they haven't had any new shoes for fucking ages....

To be fair, at £65/week it probably is economic to mine a lot more UK coal but no one would want to do the job.

I'm not sure I want to get involved with any "being held behind the rope" kinky business by a woman who used to live in a fucking pit. What exactly is a fucking pit, anyway? Sounds sordid. Is that how they recruit young Tories? No amount of stripy stair runners can compensate for dodgy right-winged gladiatorial sex acts.

Am I on the same thread as everyone else?

It's not £65 a week though is it, there are all the other benefits on top that a workless household survive on. Housing benefit, Council tax benefit and the rest. Doesn't make sense and it doesn't make sense to clobber the public sector and put all these people out of work with no replacement jobs.

'One of the most important points of feminism is that what one woman does, says, thinks, achieves etc does not represent all women. So, although I am feminist who dislikes Mrs Thatcher's political career, I do not by any stretch of the imagination think that all women politician will be exactly like her and therefore would be very happy to have more female PMs as long as they have political views that I support!

'

Well said.

Mrs T. Ah yes. I didn;t live in Wales or Scotland (I do live in wales now though) but anohter much smaller area that was absolutely decimated under her years, to teh extent we were having riot vans on the estates and the like but we were rural so didn't get attention (thankfully, probably).

Atrocious time: I left school and started work in the last eyars of her time / Joh major's government and it was a truly horrid time to be young. I pray my kids never have to experience that complete lack of opportunity.

Can those who love Thatcher please comment on her 2 mantras as Grace pointed out

theres no such thing as society and

the weak will go to the wall

Are you fine with that? Are you fine with mass privatisation, with the mass selling off social housing, with the wholesale destruction of the manufacturing industry?

People complain that its every man for himself and nobody cares about each other anymore, with no sense of community. That was Thatchers utopia. Looks like she got it after all.

And the fecking Malvinas Falklands? Look at a map, its off the coast of Argentina, not Kent, empire's over folks, give it up.

Peachy, I fear that our school leavers are going to have just as hard a time. £2.50 an hour on the new apprentice scheme, youth unemployment at an all time high. Graduates not being able to get jobs. Tuition fees trebled for the bright ones. Arghhhh!

pascoe - when I was rich (thanks to thatcherite developments) I did hire cleaners & gardeners, buy locally-made works of art and crafts and so on. I also raised a LOT of money for bootstrap charities like Shelter.

I'm no longer rich and can't hire anybody! My poverty has been caused by my health, not the economy. I'm grinding no personal axe at all.

abouteve am a recentish grad myself and finding employment impossible to get so tell me about it!- add on two disabled kids staring down the face of DLA custs and I know it will be ahrder for them

but i;d rather they never had that and the's always time for my boys, un;ikel;y though it is.

It is crap atm though for so many people. DH and I are clinging on which seems to be about the best anyone can manage right now.

sentimentality?
You haven't got a clue!

Looking back I probably benefitted in the Thatcher years too. I bought a subsidised 'starter home' in 1985, was discounted by 6K. It was the only way I was going to get a home of my own so I took it. When poll tax came in I was better off as I lived on my own and the poll tax was much cheaper than my previous rates. But did I agree with it, did I f--k as like.

So not everyone who dislikes MT and her policies were the ones who lost out. Some people look at the wider picture.

[[The explanation came with The Downing Street Years: ?they never quoted the rest. I went on to say: There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It?s our duty to look after ourselves and then to look after our neighbour. My meaning, clear at the time but subsequently distorted beyond recognition, was that society was not an abstraction, separate from the men and women who composed it, but a living structure of individuals, families, neighbours and voluntary associations.?

Seems reasonable to me

Just to add, the post-industrial economy is a myth. The contemporary world can't exist without industry. Economies cannot function without industry. There'd be no IT if there were no machines to process information, no cables & satellites to transmit it and no power to fuel them.

Sorry Alouise its too difficult to read, all one can hear is furious backpeddling and hindsight.

Industry cannot exist in a bubble, it needs a true demand led economy. Which while we have minimum wage and china don't, we will lose out on manufacturing.

The consumer can't have an inflated, bloated home economy and still expect a cheap fridge or stereo from china.

Which leads us neatly into protectionism: Anyone?

I remember "Buy British". I noted with amusement that the US has now adopted a "Buy American" stance.

You'd have a bit of trouble finding anything British to buy these days, beyond agricultural produce!

Re the backpeddling statement quoted by Alouise, we should we all have said you are right, lets stop paying our taxes and use the money to look after our own instead.

I went from being a student to the massive dole queue under M.T. The fact that I was facing a huge problem getting any job coupled with the fact that I was expected to pay some poll tax to boot really peed me off! Thatcher wanted the same as ths govt, workers kept at the bottom and the rich allowed to avoid the taxes they were due. My main problem is that Thatcher was prevented fron going as far as the present govt are,mostly by people on the streets, she would have loved to be going as far as this govt but the mood at the time prevented it. God help us...this govt is worse!!

That pesky minimum wage, what an awful commie idea to pay people just enough money so they can both eat and have a small home. Really, we should try to be more like China.

About eve, that s what small government is all about! The ultimate lack of interference and choice.

Buzz, that is globalisation, imagine trying to opt out!

Yes, maybe but they are still happy to take a high proportion of our earnings in tax this smaller government.

We are nowhere near a small government, its the ultimate end goal. What we need to do is shake off the shackles of condescending labour policies who think they know better than we do, how to spend our money.