to think my Mum might support me more?

[happynappies]

I don't know what it is with my parents, in-laws for that matter. Perhaps some comments on here might help me gain a bit of perspective!

I have three dc, a four year old who goes to pre-school a couple of mornings per week, a nearly 2-year old ds and a 4 month old dd. I've had difficult pregnancies with each, and am just adjusting to looking after all three mostly on my own. Dh works full-time but is otherwise helpful etc, and I'm on maternity leave at the moment. On average dh and I go out on our own in the evening once a year. My parents never want to have the children, either to stay/go out/babysit etc. They both live 10 minutes away, but my Mum works full-time (out of choice, she won't retire because she feels she has to visit her mother in a nursing home every evening, and has confessed that without the 'excuse' of work she'd feel she had to spend more time with her). They 'pop' to see our family usually on a Sunday evening for half an hour when I'm frantically trying to make a meal, but otherwise don't help. Well, my Dad is retired and does call around in the week so I can collect eldest dd from pre-school without waking the others from their nap, so twice a week he sits with the two children asleep for half an hour while he does his Sudoku, an I am grateful for that because it is hard work getting the two little ones out in the afternoon to pick dd up.

When I was pg I was worried sick about leaving my eldest, and last time about leaving dd and ds, but got no reassurances from my parents. Mum said it had better not be on Tuesday because she had a meeting, she wouldn't be able to get out of interviews on such and such a day, and the end of term would be difficult. She said she'd 'pop' in when she could, leaving dh to basically look after the children single-handed. In fact, when I was in labour he rang his own parents, half an hour away, to ask if they could help and they said they had a doctor's appointment the next morning so couldn't have the children. They actually had them for an hour later the next day when dh came to collect me and the baby, and leant him £2.00 for the car park which they asked to have back next time we saw them but... I digress!!

In a bid to build relations with my Mum I've been going out for an hour a week with her, walking (so that we can both get fitter and have a chat away from the children). In our discussion last night she tells me that it was harder for her because she had 'no one' when her children were young. I feel really angry about this because firstly I was nearly four when my brother was born, whereas I've got three children under that age, and secondly I know that my grandparents moved in before my brother was born and stayed with our family for a week or so, cooking, cleaning etc. I've breastfed all three, in fact am still feeding two of them, and feel exhausted most of the time. With ds I was diagnosed with pnd - he had reflux, and I wasn't getting any sleep, and was generally feeling anxious and depressed the whole time. I told my family about the diagnosis in a bid to be open and 'ask for help' and they laughed about it. Not in a callous way, but in a sort of 'she thinks you've got depression?' kind of incredulous way. I went for counselling at the time, and found it quite helpful, and realised that a lot of my problems stem from my expectations of my family and so forth... I'm trying my best to not expect help (because I know I'm not going to get it) and to not feel hard done to, because I know it can sound like a stuck record, and you get in a negative mindset ending up feeling jealous/bitter/angry about everything when in reality I've a lot to be grateful for, love my children, our choice entirely to have three little ones, happy with dh etc etc. I just can't help feeling that my Mum is being unreasonable. She thinks she had it so bad, and thinks that all her friends who spend time looking after their own grandchildren need their heads testing - why would they want to do that? I feel hurt that she doesn't want to spend time with my children, and throws herself into work first, then visiting my Nan second, then when she is on holiday (she's a teacher) she heads straight off either abroad or to stay with my brother and sister. I'm garbling, I know, don't know if this makes sense, and I know that grandparents don't have to give up their lives just because they have grandchildren, but I find her general attitude so unsupportive. Fed up fed up. Feel doubly unlucky that both parents and in-laws seem to feel the same, so no chance of any help or support, and the only thing we ever hear is how bad it was for them!!!

"You need to reassess your expectations of her. Then either suck it up and live with it or distance yourself from her."

Well said reluctant

As I always say, accept what you can't change and move on.

Lying witch, I disagree. We have no responsibility to our parents. Things we do for our parents are, in the good cases, done out of love/respect/gratitude; in the bad cases, guilt/fear of being judged/hope that they will change.

I am so sorry you are upset and tired, OP. If I were in your position, I would be too - but I can also put myself in the shoes of your poor old mum.

She has a sick, elderly mother who's relying on her to visit. Your mum clearly feels guilty about not being able to look after her own mum, as she's visiting every night, and maybe she's wishing someone would look after HER?

There's only so much she can do for everyone - and at the moment, her mum is getting priority.

Try not to be jealous of the time your mum spends with your gran, - they may not have that much time left together. Same goes for work. For example,your mum may have different standards from you about 'pulling a sickie' when she isn't ill., which I think you were suggesting in one of the posts above.

You seem to be getting good, useful, practical support from your Dad. You and you DH are keeping things going.

You're seeing your poor mum for a walk every week, so the doors are still open for you and she to spend some quality time as mother and daughter.

You're all under pressure, but it's not your Mum's fault, or anyone else's. Just a rough patch, with plenty of time in the future for everything to sort itself out

Reluctant... Fair enough. There's nothing that I wouldn't do for my Mum because she's always been a great Mum... but my Dad I feel very little for and I will not take on the caring role for him.

That's a really nice post, Kittybutton.. :)

My mother was in her 70s when ds1 and ds2 were born. I got plenty of emotional support on the phone. We lived 100s of miles apart. But when visiting - in either direction - she always made it clear that she wasn't up to giving much in the way of practical support. Since I knew this before they were born, my expectations were low, and on finding them easier than expected she did baby sit on a couple of occasions, which was a bonus.
Since I could be of a similar age when my boys have children, I expect this would be me experience from the other side.

YANBU OP. I don't understand people like that, I mean you're family, where are their priorities? To me grandparents who don't want to have any kind of contact with their grandchildren are just COLD, and I hate all this "I looked after you for 18 years (or whatever), now you're on your own", how sad. A child is for life not just for Christmas 18 years.

You see that's why i like MN, for the different perspectives. I would never have thought of it that way kittybutton , sometimes it's hard to see these things.

"Blimey... those Grandparents are our parents and we have a responsibility to them... they don't have a responsibility to look after our children but some do for whatever reason."

Why do we have a responsibility to our parents that they don't have to our children?

Either it works both ways or it works neither.

What is this 'responsibility' that we have to our parents? I don't understand what that is.

Please don't tell me it's the old "they gave you life" bollocks. Because bringing a child into this rotten stinking world is something a parent should apologise for and vow to spend the rest of their life making it up to you! [only half joking emoticon]

Somebody chooses to have a child, they choose to bring that child into the world - the child had no say in it - they have a legal and moral duty to feed and clothe that child that they chose to bring into the world. I fail to see what the child owes them for any of that.

Which brings me back to the works both ways or works neither school of thought.

I think when my parents can´t look after themselves then I will feel that they are my responsibility.

But I don´t feel that they any longer have a responsibility for me or that they have ever had any for my children.

Well, I'm usually of the 'family should stick together' camp and find all talk of 'responsibilities' a bit bizarre, but on this one, I feel differently. Your mum is working as a teacher, which given she is probably in her 50's at the very least is demanding, and she is caring every single day for an elderly relative. It's not really the same as someone who has retired already and goes on about their multiple holidays abroad whilst leaving you struggling, is it? (as on a similar thread recently). Plus, however much the children are asleep, your dad does pop in twice a week so you don't have to take the younger children along to the school pick-up- he may read the Sudoku, but that's a reasonable time-commitment and deserves some kudos for that (and presumably sometimes the children wake up!)

I think the thing you sound annoyed about is not having a night out- have you directly asked them to babysit? If not, then just book someone else, not a relation and just try not to think about how much they aren't doing, and focus a bit on what they are doing (meeting up once a week, looking after children napping, and so on). Your mum in particular sounds like she doens't have much more space for family caring, it's sad that you need help at the same time as elderly relatively, but I do think your mum is very squeezed at the moment, as someone else has pointed out.

I didn't have dc close together as I knew I'd get very little assistance from my parents and none from dh's plus dh himself has never been very hands on.

Your parents are who they are, you having 3 dc in quick succession is not a decision they made. If your mum was not a "let me help you as much as I can" type before the children came along you can't really moan now.

The children will get older and things will get easier for you. Your mum however will tire more easily as she ages and working full-time plus visiting her mum every evening will weary her, don't begrudge her her own free-time now.

I feel for you.

Of course you cannot expect your parents to help but like you I do find it a little upsetting that my parents simply don't care enough, either about me or my DC, to want to help.

There isn't an answer other than to try and not let it get you down.

reluctanthomosapien I think you're right, I've had people tell me before that I can't change the situation, and should sort of distance myself from her, but I guess I was thinking that for the sake of my children in particular, and also for myself and my Mum, I wanted to keep trying, hence the suggestion that we go walking. It was a New Year's resolution - an idea that we could both get fitter in anticipation of my sister's wedding later in the year, and I was kind of hoping that we could build bridges. I guess once again my expectations were too high! I only started by asking her what age me and my brother were when we had swimming lessons, and that sort of opened the floodgates for her to tell me how she had it so hard etc. I haven't ever told her how I feel - and have very rarely asked her for help because I hate how it makes me feel when she says no. I definitely did ask her both times I went into hospital because I was so anxious, but both times she said no.

kittybuttoon your post was really lovely. I'm trying to think like you suggest, but find it so hard. I do begrudge her spending time with my Nan. I know the black-and-white facts must sound like I'm being really demanding and my poor mum is rushed off her feet, but by her own admission she works out of guilt because she feels she would have to spend all of her time with her mother if she didn't have a job. She won't look after her herself, she was failing badly in terms of duty of care when my Nan was at home on her own, not eating, getting more and more ill etc, but my Mum hid her head in the sand, refused to get help for her etc, and now a year or so later she is in a nursing home, and visits her every night out of guilt. I do begrudge that, but am trying not to.

I don't understand all this stuff about 'responsibilties' either. Obviously I know my children are my responsibility. I'm not asking anyone to take over the responsibility. I suppose that after struggling along for so long you begin to feel the world is against you, and it is very difficult to maintain perspective. Respect to people who have less help, more children, less support, and who have had other difficult circumstances in the mix, I really don't know how you do it.

Still thinking about everything everyone has said. Will be back after the children are in bed

Happynappies don't let the responses get you down. AIBU is full of people desperately trying to outdo each other with the wittiest put downs at the moment.

You're not being unreasonable to feel as you do. It's really sad your Mum isn't more interested in being involved in her grandchildren's lives, and in yours. You're entitled to feel sad about that. I don't think you can change them though, sadly. So I guess you just struggle on for now, knowing that in time it will get easier as your brood get older and you can do more reciprocal babysitting with friends etc.

I'd much rather be in yours or Hecate's families than some of the others on this thread.

YABU, you get plenty of help already - two afternoons a week is a lot more than most people get.

Your mum works FT and has an elderly parent to case for yet you think she should still provide childcare for you? Even worse, you expect her to call in sick when she's not just to assist you.

You choose to have three children so close together - your choice not theirs. If you need childcare, then arrange a nursery or childminder.

Lyingwitch, I dont get the tit for tat either. A parent brings up a child for 18 years but god forbid they dont provide childcare galore for their grandchildren or they'll be in a nursing home before the inks dry. Whatever happened to grandparents just enjoying seeing their grandchilren by visiting or calling.

"and that sort of opened the floodgates for her to tell me how she had it so hard etc."

I wonder if it´s a personality thing, and some people just think that they are hard done to?

If so OP-are you following suit?

I find it odd that you begrudge your mum spending time with her own mum tbh-do you think that you deserve her time more?

YANBU

I'm reading these posts and feeling such love and gratitude to my own parents and inlaws who've been so good to me and my children over the years.

But hey - what goes around comes around.

My mum and my inlaws helped us out of love, and because they're good, kind, generous people.

And in return they get a lot of love, respect, friendship and support back as they get older and become more dependent on us.

I suppose I see it differently.

first off, your children owe you (in my opinion) nothing for their childhood. Having them was a choice you made and raising them was your duty. You owe your children a childhood. They are not beholden to you in any way for it.

And if, when your children are grown up and you no longer owe them and you want to say you're on your own now pal, fair enough. But that means that you don't have a relationship where you help each other out. They're on their own, you're on your own.

Because otherwise, you're saying that your children owe you for the food and shelter of their childhood or something equally stupid. Which, until someone proves to me that babies ask to be born, I will never agree with.

It is hurtful I can see why you are upset. Although I agree with the wise words above from sevendwarves, accept what you cannot change and move on. You cannot change your mothers behaviour/choices/relationship with you you just can't. It is futile to try and in dwelling on all this you will only upset yourself.

I have sympathy we are going through similar (though more extreme) problems with DH's parents. Our minimal expectations of them are never met. They refuse to ever help and worse delight in the refusal as a power thing. They are retired and in perfect health. MIL has even discussed emigrating because "theres no reason to stay in England" notwithstanding her lovely sons and our tiny dds. They have really upset us over the years the only way to deal with it is to try and make yourself not care. You are not in control of their behaviour only your response to it.

OP i really cant see the problem, Ive even read your posts twice but i really dont get it?

You have three kids, so whats the problem?
Your DH had to look after them, so whats the problem?

I really dont get it? are you only 15 or something? i could understand your moaning then, but otherwise you sound like another 'i want my cake and to eat it too' type. If you want a night out, book a sitter and go out, wheres the big deal? Just do it!

You could get your mom round for dinner a few nights a week, she must be knackard teaching all day and visiting her mom on a night.

"For me it's incredibly important that my daughters don't give up their lives and opportunities to tend to me when I'm old..."

Caring elderly parents is hard, but some people see it as a privilege and a hugely fulfilling part of their life.

"I'd hate for my girls to waste their precious younger years caring for me"

I feel the same way reading that as I would if I thought that you were talking about raising children.

My dad died last year and the experience of being with him and caring for him when he was ill was such a blessing. Caring for other people and being cared for is part of what makes us human. I feel so sad to hear you say that taking responsibility for elderly parents is a pointless waste of time and a distraction from the real business of life.

Don't know why people think the OP's mum is caring for an elderly parent. She isn't. The OP's grandmother is living in a care home. All the OP's mother does is visit her. The OP has already said that her mum failed to take care of her gran and didn't get her any help when she first needed it.This is hardly comparable to someone who is actually looking after an elderly relative.

Also, are people really saying that the OP is in some way unreasonable to want her DH with her when she is in labour and giving birth? If your parents never do any babysitting for you for the rest of their lives, they should look after your children when you are in hospital, so you can have the support of your partner. It's not as if they were being asked to take on full time childcare while the OP went back to work.

I would do that for a stranger, let alone my child.