To think that taxing high earners even more would actually be a bit unfair?

[bubbleymummy]

I hear this suggested a lot on mumsnet and I really disagree with it. High earners are paying a huge contribution in tax already - thousands and sometimes 10s of thousands more than a lot of people who are clamouring for them to be taxed even more! Why should they be punished for having a highly paid job? How would you like handing nearly half your income over to the government? I think we should be thankful that we do have high earners who are already making a significant contribution. We would be a lot worse off if we drove them away with higher taxes!

My sons are very lucky. They had no control over it but have been dealt a great hand with which to start with.

It's all perception though - I would agree some elements of being in a good job could be 'luck' doesn't mean the same as saying 'you are lucky'

Violet, because often personality, connections, and academic qualifications count for more than they are worth in the process of candidate selection. Yes, luck may count for some of it (though certainly I agree not everything by far), and I am sure that aptitude is quite common, but it isn't always the case that the best cadidate gets the job, and it is also true that often, especially in today's job market, there may be several suitable candidates for one job, and they have to chose someone, so they chose the most confident or the face that fits.

I am not saying that I could do your job whatever it is. However, I doubt you could do mine. As jenandberry has but very succinctly, low paid professions have their own stresses. What is more, someone has to do them in society. Why don't we respect them for it?

Some people aren't born with aptitude or brains. So, I'd say having brains you'd lucked out, Macdoodle!

I know I have made sensible choices, that is my role in my family - to be the sensible one.

I just don't buy the "I need a big wage to compendate me for my stress and how hard I work"

To be honest if I worked that hard and was that stressed that I needed 60K of comnpensation I would find another job.

I am also an oldie with no bursary.

I am what would probably be classed as a high earner (though it doesn't feel like it in London).

I think I deserve to pay plenty of tax. I still earn more than other people. For every extra pound I earn, I get to keep (approx) 60p, as opposed to 80p (obviously ignoring NI, etc). I still get exactly the same amounts free of tax or at 20%. I don't buy that it's a disincentive to work for most people.

The bigger issue is that there are only approximately 190,000 people in the country earning more than £200,000 (according to recent stats I read). Some of those will be geographically mobile, others won't. Either way, 190,000 isn't enough, no matter how hard you tax them, to fix things.

We do/I do, why don't you respect those with high paid jobs?

My father just retired, on a final salary of £18k. He had a dirty, physically demanding job, worked 6 days a week, left at the crack of dawn and rarely got home before 8.

Dp and I earn more than 10 times that between us. We don't work anywhere near as hard as my dad worked.

I don't begrudge paying tax at all. Public services have to be paid for somehow, and if the higher earners don't pay, who will? We all benefit from public services after all.

I do, I just don't like being told that I am lazy/thick because I don't earn enough to be independant of tax credits.

I love my job, but it is very stressful, I don't see my pay as "compensation", I see it as fair reward for doing a job.
I am sorry but I really do not believe that someone who does a less stressful job, needing less training, and without such serious consequnces for errors, should earn the same. what would be the incentive then to do my job??

I still don't really understand your point toastie. I can assure you connections count for nothing in the world of state school teaching. It's about choosing the best candidate for the job- which yes, is a mixture of qualifications, aptitude, the right person to fit into a team at any particular time.... Thats life isn't it? It doesn't mean it's unfair. And yes, there may well be several people who could do the job and only one person who'll get it. There's a recession due to overspending. Times are tough. Still don't see what you think is unfair though

Macdoodle I am lucky that each time I have applied for a job no one better has applied.

I even count myself lucky that I had a crap upbringing as it has given me a drive to earn enough to give my own family better. In a similar manner I was lucky to have feckless parents as I was awarded a full grant so I went to uni.

I am lucky that I had certain teachers who pushed me.

I am lucky that I was born in the UK with all the opportunities that are on offer.

I was lucky to be born clever.

I was lucky in my finals that the questions I had studied came up.

I am lucky that I fell pregnant with my children when I did that allowed me to apply for certain promotions. I am lucky that the people I replaced chose to leave when they did.

I could go on..

good for your dad offpiste, but just because a job isn't physically demanding with long hours, doesnt make it any easier.
I work a long day one day a week, with a lot of responssibility, juggling a hundred literally life saving decisions, I may not actually get out of my chair all day, it is not physically demanding, but when I get home, I often am asleep on the sette by 8pm from sheer mental exhaustion.
I couldn't actually function like that more than one day a week. I do work more days :) but not at that intensity.

Macdoodle- but that argument only applies if you have a sliding scale of work/training/stress with pay appropriately apportioned along that scale. There are many jobs I would consider look a complete doss (footballer, anyone?) that are very well paid, and many I consider highly skilled, highly training and highly stressful (social worker? teacher) that aren't...

Macdoodle my job is not stressful, should I take a paycut? I know connections have played a part in jobs I have accepted.

Have to take issue with this:

"So why are they not in the higher paid jobs already, if they have the qualifications, skills and willingness?"

I have a 1st class honours degree (graduated 2nd in my year) and masters and habitually worked 60-hour-weeks at one point. I think my intelligence and diligence is demonstrated. I am still poor. Caring for an elderly relative and then becoming a single parent has severely curtailed my earning potential. While things will improve as my children get older, the damage done is not totally redeemable and I will never become a higher rate tax payer. I'm not after sympathy, BTW, as I am generally happy and have learned to count my blessings.

My rambling point is that earnings are not a reliable indicator of a person's worth. Among higher-rate payers will be those who have worked damn hard to get those and those who have just been lucky. Similarly, among the poor will be those who have been dreadfully unlucky and those who are just lazy. It works both ways.

It's worth remembering though that an extra percentage point of tax on a higher rate earner, while it may be extremely problematic for them as an individual, is never going to cause the same degree of difficulty as a cut in benefits for someone at the bottom. There are always more options available to you if you are better off. I work full time. My friend is on benefits. After I've paid childcare and mortgage, we are left with the same amount to spend on bills, food, etc. However, my money goes further because I have access to reasonable credit and can do simple things like pay gas/electric by direct debit (whereas she has to use pre-payment card etc, which has a much more expensive tariff). My washing machine breaks down? I can get one on credit for 0% interest for 6 months, giving me 6 months to save up. Hers? She has to take out a Provident loan at 100%+ APR (I kid you not) and starts paying interest immediately. Over time, these things make a BIG difference.

No of course not, and I agree footballers are overpaid!
Was just pointing out that sometimes jobs may look cushy from the outside are not. And just because you work long hours and get dirty doesnt mean it is harder than anything else.

Right jenandberry you've convinced me - I'm giving it all up to become a deputy headteacher!

You are misunderstanding me. I don't think it is unfair for people to get a good salary.

I think it us unfair to harp on about how much tax you have to pay and how hard done by you are when there are many of us on here struggle on a fraction of what you get.

I think it is unfair to suggest that those of us on low incomes have only ourselves to blame, and should be content to live in a hovel in uneducated poverty without healthcare so that the state can dismantle the welfare state, the NHS, tax credits and so on, so that middle and higher rate tax payers can go on paying less tax to enable them to go on another foreign break and upgrade their 4x4.

OK, so I am exaggerating. And if this isn't what you are suggesting, forgive me, my original post was aimed at the OP, not at you (violethill and macdoodle) personally.

I'm leaving this thread now. It is turning into another one of those threads where people are just sniping at people who are higher earners. I am never jealous of anyone who earns more than me, infact throughout my career I have aspired to learn from them so I could try and achieve the same rather than envy them. Maybe that is the difference - some people have the right attitude to progress.

No but often people working long hours and getting dirty have the far greater stress of trying to pay all the bills.

kucking I am a high earner, I am not sniping I just know I am lucky.

I don't think people are sniping at people who earn more, but if you are struggling to put food on the table it must be grating to hear high earners moan about their tax bill.

Whatever i need maternity cover soon - you are welcome to apply.

sunshine of course you are absolutely right, the problem with taxing higher rate tax payers is you get everyone from £35K (or wherever it is now) to £150K, and of course those at the bottom are going to be much harder hit.

I am on the lower end of that, single parent, debts from XH, mortgage on interest only, my finances are balanced on a knife point, I can not afford to pay any more tax, I will go under and lose my house. But hey I'm a higher rate tax payer so muct be able to afford it.

What your point clearly shows it is that it is all relative.

Taxing more is not the solution IMO, sack all the bureaucrats and managers left over from the mess the last government made, that should help !

I do think there is a case to be made for raising the threshold for HRT.

Toastie do you believe that? Do you think thats what people believe :( I don't, I don't know any that do (except my ex and he's a proven dick)!
How sad to spend your life thinking that :(