To think that taxing high earners even more would actually be a bit unfair?

[bubbleymummy]

I hear this suggested a lot on mumsnet and I really disagree with it. High earners are paying a huge contribution in tax already - thousands and sometimes 10s of thousands more than a lot of people who are clamouring for them to be taxed even more! Why should they be punished for having a highly paid job? How would you like handing nearly half your income over to the government? I think we should be thankful that we do have high earners who are already making a significant contribution. We would be a lot worse off if we drove them away with higher taxes!

tax should be based on the value of the land/ house(s) you own and not income.

The playing field would soon be leveled

I'm off to, I am feeling like I am having to justify my income, I don't resent paying it (though would resent paying more). Toastie good luck to you, I have been where you are, keep plugging away, it will get better :)

And often the people working long hours and getting dirty don't have the choices that others have.

I don't actually think that people on higher rate are all stinking rich, but if we dont pay the taxes, who should?

I think a lot of people are jumping in here and arguing against things that haven't actually been said.

Look, of course there is a certain degree of chance in anyone's life. You may have brilliant qualifications and work extremely hard, and then suffer some catastrophe (partner dying, serious illness etc) But those things can happen to any of us. We're all at the mercy of fate.

Generally speaking, life isn't black and white for many people. Most people aren't either so advantaged and rich that they don't have to worry about money at all, or so poor and disadvantaged that they will always live in poverty and never have a chance to better their situation.

For most people, there are elements of good and bad fortune, and its what we do with that which shapes our lives.

JenandBerry - you are being very self depracating, saying that you don't feel your job is difficult, and suggesting that its all good luck that you got qualified, and got promotions. The bottom line is, there are many people who aren't prepared to do what you've done, or indeed what many of us do day in day out. There are often threads on here from women who aren't prepared to work while their children are young, or aren't prepared to work if they are paying all their earnings on childcare, or aren't prepared to move 100 miles away for work. And if they want to make those choices - fine, but then don't complain because other people do choose them.

TBH if I had given up work when my three children were pre-schoolers, I could well be posting on here as a low earner, having got behind in my career, and not been able to reach the level I'm at now. If that were the case, I hope I wouldn't be resentful of other women who had continued working.

Very good post Sunshine.

Macdoodle - you sound in a similar situation to me. Just feel like some people on here feel like you can only be on a knife edge if you earn under a certain amount.

Ultimately unless you thoroughly means test everything - which of course is impossible - nothing will ever be totally fair.

I guess if you are a hrt and feel you should be/are able to contribute more to society there's always charitable donations.

Jenandberry - I could never do your job - would fill me with terror

I am not being self deprecating, it is a fact that if someone better than you turns up for interview , they will get the job. But yes i agree it is down to us to make the most of our luck. I have moved for work. We moved abroad for a while beacuse of DHs career. We have had a sizeable gap between our children, hence me being pregnant and the wrong side of 40.

Whatever outside perceptions of teaching are usually wrong. People either think our job is too easy or too hard. I am being a little dishonest. I have taught in some schools and it was very stressful. I have taught in other schools that were bloody hard work. I am lucky that this job is a little like goldilock's porrige, neither too hard or too easy.

"I am not being self deprecating, it is a fact that if someone better than you turns up for interview , they will get the job."

Oh I totally agree. In fact I don't think you and I are disagreeing at all! I guess I'm just pointing out that as far as that goes, we're all in the same boat, aren't we? A particular job at a particular time might need a certain type of person. I've been for interviews where I haven't got the job - that's life isn't it? I just don't buy the idea that that fact in itself - that the job goes to the best person - is unfair.

I can remember when we had 98% tax (83% higher rate plus 15% investment income surcharge), We jointly earn about 55K a year and have teensge twin daughters and we certainly don't comsider ourselves rich! I believe those earning £25K to 75K are being squeezed out of existence. Anyone earning more than £100K should be more heavily taxed and those earning £200K + should be paying far more and in NIC too!

I am astonishingly rich and am paid so much that my eyes bubble. Frankly I can afford to pay my taxes.

tax should be based on the value of the land/ house(s) you own

That's called council tax, we pay that too don't we ?

YABU.

And just to remind some people that people who don't pay higher rate tax have often worked bloody hard, too.

"tax should be based on the value of the land/ house(s) you own "

• what mama says. We already pay that.

I find it quite shocking that some people don't even seem aware of what taxes there are in this country.

My dh would say he was lucky, to end up being such a higher rate tax payer that we are leaving the UK to enjoy his earning capability without the the punishing UK tax.

He's not lucky, nothing in his life has made him lucky to earn a lot of money, we had our dd when we were 20 we made our choices. Luck, schmuck. Anybody else could have done the same, and if they haven't why not?

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that higher earners are complaining about the tax they pay. Certainly most people on this thread are saying they are glad that they are contributing. My original point was (and still is) that people who aren't higher earners frequently offer up the suggestion of taxing the higher earners even MORE! That's a bit of a kick in the teeth - that the 10s of thousands of pounds a year that you are pumping into the system isn't appreciated ( "you can afford it - you're a higher earner) and you should do more. THAT is what I think is unfair.

I think I should pay more tax, it does not mean that i think the taxes I pay are not appreciated.

That's nice Jen. Would you mind me asking if you are at the lower or upper end of the 40% bracket? Or maybe even in the 50% bracket :)

I am comfortably into the HRT but withing the lower end if that makes sense.

I've seen so much of my money wasted by Labour and the Conservatives that I don't want to pay any more. I don't think it would be well spent.

The taxes paid by higher earners aren't appreciated, I don't know what that means. By whom? Who is going to appreciate it? I work (occasionally) in an industry entirely publicly funded (in a slightly different way) and it is not appreciated at all. It's just money to be had, I'll have that taxi fare, that hotel room, I'll put that lunch through, I'll have that business class seat. It's public money and if I don't spend it someone else will. Er this is not my attitude, but that's the attitude from local authority to central government to many individuals. One poster on here once said to me that the tax I pay was never my money, it was never in my bank account and it was by right "the government's" and I had no right to be concerned how it was spent.

No, it's not appreciated. A great deal is wasted without a care.

To be honest, I've read through a lot of this thread and there are some interesting comments and points of view but there are also some quite clearly inane comments coupled with a generous helping of bitterness.

I think that the main points that seem to have fallen out of this are:

(1) No-one in either the lower or higher tax brackets are saying that they don't want to pay tax.

(2) The majority of those posting feel that there is a social responsibility to pay tax to support those less fortunate.

(3) Higher bracket tax payers don't necessarily have as much disposable income as lower rate tax payers; however, unfortunately it would not be possible to means test every earner in the country and so blanket policy must prevail.

(4) Higher bracket tax payers feel they are already paying enough tax, especially given that many have paid for their own further education and are still paying for it.

(5) Lower bracket tax payers think that it is fair for higher bracket tax payers to pay more tax, as they earn more money. However, once again consideration is not given to disposable income.

(6) An element of luck is often attributed to higher level tax bracket earners being in the position/job that they are in now. Mainly people have focussed on "good luck", without consideration that some may have been motivated to succeed by a run of "bad luck" or circumstance.

Given consideration for each of these points, I think the only thing that we can conclude is the fact that this is not an easy problem to solve. The mere fact that lower bracket tax layers are calling for a higher burden to be placed on the higher level tax payers demonstrates that there is at least some grounds for feelings of inequity... however, the source or genesis of these feelings is pretty hard to pin down, other than people are bemoaning their bad luck etc... despite there being no consideration for the fact that we may create our own luck, at least to some extent.

I think from my own perspective that my own opinion is that the tax banding is probably okay where it is now. I don't think the bands should be moved, raised or lowered. I think that looking a tax in isolation is the wrong thing to do. From a macro economic perspective you could almost draw a parallel with looking at tax alone with short term profit maximisation in private enterprise. It would be a short-term measure with limited immediate benefits but with the potential to really harm the longer term objectives of creating wealth on a nationwide basis. Rather a holistic approach is required which will closely scrutinise public sector spending and how tax funds are spent.

I meant unappreciated by those who are clamouring for more from higher earners even though they themselves are contributing less ( I'm some cases substantially less). It's like saying that the HErs contribution isn't good enough - even though it is more than what they themselves are giving. Sorry, I'm probably explaining this terribly now - must go to bed!

Do you think people should be grateful that we pay our taxes?? I thought it was a legal and moral obligation. I'm happy to do it and I don't expect to be "appreciated" for it. How strange.

Good post tytanius - you are much more capable of expressing your opinions at this time of night than I am! :)

Thanks bubbly, I would say no, not appreciated by those who spend it (in my experience) or many of those who receive it, as evidenced by the sense of entitlement that can often prevail.

It's vitally important that it's appreciated, or it will be wasted. As much care should be embedded in spending other people's money as in spending your own. More. If it's not appreciated, this does not happen.