To think that taxing high earners even more would actually be a bit unfair?

[bubbleymummy]

I hear this suggested a lot on mumsnet and I really disagree with it. High earners are paying a huge contribution in tax already - thousands and sometimes 10s of thousands more than a lot of people who are clamouring for them to be taxed even more! Why should they be punished for having a highly paid job? How would you like handing nearly half your income over to the government? I think we should be thankful that we do have high earners who are already making a significant contribution. We would be a lot worse off if we drove them away with higher taxes!

It isnt relevant, you were ranting about how hard done you are, and us higer rate tax payers have such an easy life. Just pointing out that the majority have been through it to get where we are now. So actually I understand, and actually I think the benfits system and the NHS are wonderful. I dont begrudge paying into it at all, what I do begrudge is people resenting me for doing so, and expecting more and more, and thinking I am so bloody lucky, not seeing that i worked very very hard to get here, and continue to do so.
My job is not easy or cushy and I earn every penny I make.

I do find it odd that people would reduce their hours to avoid paying tax. You only pay the extra tax on the amount over the threshold. Either the amount is negilible and I suspect that you would lose more by cutting your hours. Or you are so far into that tax band you are going to need to cut a lot of hours.

As other have said many people on a HTR have jobs they enjoy and they are hard working. It does not make sense that they would work less simply to avoid paying into the state coffers.

Admittedly my children are not at university yet but I have a far higher dispoable income than I had when I was earning 30K for example.

Toastie, if I quit my high paid job I doubt that you could or would want to do it.

As for "and us lazy low paid scum have such an easy life," - who said that? Who called you lazy low paid scum because I certainly haven't seen it anywhere on this thread.

Incidentally, whilst you are telling us how hard you are working so you can progress and get a good job, are you assuming you are the only one who has had to do that and struggle to better yourself? Are you really naive enough to think that I walked into my career without having to work just as hard as you are to get there?

But macdoodle all of us earn every penny we make unless we are involved in fraud and few of us have a cushy job. Infact I would say as a deputy head teacher my job is cushy compared to many other very low paying jobs. I have also never felt as if anyone resents me for my salary.

Umm some on this thread clearly do?

I haven't picked up on that, although I am skim reading and have had wine! I got the impression that people resented people who earned a high wage and then begrudge paying tax.

People on mumsnet are odd and fall out over things that noone really cares about. I have never met anyone who resents my wage. Maybe I only meet very polite or two faced people.

The people in the middle always get shafted IMO.

We are high earners. DH makes 3 figures and I can almost get that when I am working. TBH the 50% is annoying but it isn't life changing, not really. Once you are making £150k you are doing just fine. I think any more than 50% would be a mistake because people are simply not going to want to pay more in the dollar than they keep.

However I feel for the people in the middle, the people who are not rich by any stretch of the imagination but who are always getting slugged. They miss out on the help available to low income earners and don't have the benefit of the cushion that a high income can bring. I am thinking of people say between 25k and 50k per household.

It will always be the way though because they make up the majority of the population. At one end you have a minority of very poor people who are (and should be) looked after, at the other you have the rich who can look after themselves and in between you have the people who work and work and who never seem to get anywhere.

I can't see anyway around it TBH. I don't like handing over large amounts of the our money, but I do like good roads, a police force, fire men, hospitals, schools etc and am aware that is what the money is needed for. I do get pissed off when money is wasted though.

I think taxing high earners is incredibly unfair. They generally don't use public services but work fucking hard to fund those who di....yet the constantly get slated for bbeing well off, middle class, blah blah blah. Doesn't make much sense to me!

I also despise inheritance tax but that's a whole different thread....

But they choose not to use public services.

I am sure you do. I have no problem with that. I have an issue with some posters' comments re "I have worked hard for my money" as if by implication the rest of us aren't working hard.

The truth is, the money has to come from somewhere. With fewer and fewer jobs, more and more unemployed (with the attendant increase in problems of bad health, stress, mental breakdown, marriage breakdown, domestic violence, homelessness etc), costs to the government/state are going up. So are you going to charge those that are already struggling with the basics, like food, rent, utility bills, heating, etc, or are you going to charge those who maybe have a bit more disposible income, who can afford a holiday or two abroad, and two cars, and lots of leisure ativities etc.

The fact is, I could not pay out more without facing real hardship. I hardly think it is a matter of having a "sense of entitlement", but if it is, why the hell shouldn't I have a sence of entitlement to a roof over my head, food on the table, and a few basic luxuries like a second hand telly and an old bashed in PC?

I wasn't a higher rate tax payer in the UK, but when i moved to Belgium I immediately had to hand over half my salary in Tax/NI. It came as one hell of a shock. The 50% tax band starts quite low. But services are fantastic and child care - including after school/holiday clubs and activities are tax deductible. Strangely enough, the Belgians aren't leaving in droves.

Jenandberry- There is no universal measurement for how 'hard' or 'cushy' a particular job is. You say that you think your deputy headship is cushy compared to many low paid jobs, but not everyone would agree. For someone who hates public speaking to a hall full of parents, or who wouldn't feel comfortable addressing a hall full of teenagers, or who wouldn't want to spend their Sundays preparing challenging lessons for Oxbridge candidates, it would be hell on earth. At the end of the day, market forces will dictate what a job is worth. I agree with kuckingfunt - if every HR tax payer stepped down tomorrow, do you really believe every low earner would be skilled enough and willing to step into their shoes?

Yes kuckingfunt and morloth what I have been trying to say but much more succint and coherent! Damn I am rubbish at mning!

"if every HR tax payer stepped down tomorrow, do you really believe every low earner would be skilled enough and willing to step into their shoes?"

not everyone, but a fair few. Haven't you heard, there's a recession, lots of competition for every jobs out there.

Of course high earners use public services. They may choose to use private health care and education. What do you think paid for the training of the doctors and teachers? How do the roads you drive on to get their get built? What's used to pay to light the street outside your house? If you need a transfusion in a private hospital, how do you think the blood has been collected? What pays for the police and prisons to keep the streets safe? And who cleans the drains so they don't flood? Who pays to empty your bins? Who pays for the coastguard and lighthouses so your imported goods get safely into port? Who makes sure the restaurants don't give you food poisoning? Who would you expect to come and put a fire our in your house?

Quite apart from which, taxes are about societal not individual benefit.

So why are they not in the higher paid jobs already, if they have the qualifications, skills and willingness?

And please don't come out with the old chestnut of not being 'lucky'' enough. I am not from a privileged background, I actually had a fairly rubbish schooling etc

Hmm well I went to Uni for 6 years, then trained for almost 10 years to get where I am. Not sure there are too many out there who could do it without that training, not that they could legally, but hell toastie you're welcome to it if you want it

That was to toastie btw

No I don't violet and of course it us about perception. I just do not really buy the i earn this wage because my job is so hard and stressful. I earn a good wage because I needed certain qualifications and I have worked my way up.

But IMO in no way is my job as hard as previous jobs I had. I had a variety of cleaning jobs once. I worked similar length days as I do now expect I was often literalyy scrubbing shit. In the evening I would work in bars and take abuse and harrassment from pissed men. That was stressful and unpleasant and what made it more stressful was knowing that I would probably struggle to put food on the table and certainly could not ponce about in the South of France for 6 weeks.

You are right I have a choice, I can drop out of the ratrace and earn less if I choose. My husband has done exactly that. That again is another luxury that minimises the stress. I have a choice that often people on lower wages do not.

Yes, but someone very similar to you may have been in another place at another time, and despite making the same effort as you just happened not to get the same results due to timing or circumstances beyond their control.

"And please don't come out with the old chestnut of not being 'lucky'' enough. I am not from a privileged background, I actually had a fairly rubbish schooling etc"

I am sure if I stepped down tomorrow there would be a string of people waiting to jump in my place.

Some people are in low paid jobs because of bad luck, they could have an illness, they could be caring for someone else with an illness for example.

I had a rubbish start to life as did my husband who earn multiples of my wage when he works full time, we acknowledge luck has still played a part.

Luck is interesting though. I am lucky, I was born in a first world country to loving parents, free education, free healthcare, supportive extended family, met a great man very early on in life etc. Nothing I did caused those things to happen, therefore it was pure luck.

I am not better or more deserving than the mother living in slums and just trying to keep her and her babies alive, just luckier that my country (in a world/historical context) had its shit together by the time I was born.

Jenandberry- you seem to be demonstrating my point precisely. You recognised that you needed certain qualifications to do the job you now do, which in your perception is less stressful than previous jobs . So you went and got those qualifications. That must have taken commitment and effort. And possibly expense too - I did my PGCE in the 80s when you had to fund yourself- no 6k bursary which came in a lot later. Some people wouldn't want to do what you and I have done. There is a choice in a lot of this

I'm struggling to see where luck has played a part in my job. I can see how bad luck can affect people and force them into jobs they neither like nor want, thats why I think the NHS/benefits system is so marvellous, because that is who it should be helping.

The only luck I had was to be born with the brains to make the best of my life. But even that wasn't enough to stop me marrying my nasty piece of shit of an XH So maybe not so lucky?