to wonder what the fuss is regarding Private Schools?

[peppapigandhumf]

A friend has 2 kids at a local prep school. She doesnt really bang on about the school to me etc but i wonder why bother pay for education when schooling is free.

Is it really just about small class sizes and fancy expensive uniforms?

slhilly absolutely, but you must also take into account the work ethic/attitude of the kids in Finland, Singapore etc. Kids in private school have a good work ethic drilled into them at home - not necessarily so at state schools (I am aware that I'm generalising here). I suspect that makes more of a difference than the class of the teachers' degrees.

I don't agree with private education at all. I think that if the "powers that be" did not have that option for THEIR children, a lot more emphasis would be put on improving State education for everyone else.

I always thought the private school down the road had the better drugs. But there you go.

My 'comp' had two drama studios, swimming pool, urban farm, huge playing fields, tennis court, pottery kiln, screen printing room, woodwork, metal work, a music wing where I had individual oboe and piano lessons, ( two friends now professional musicians) a boarding wing and er a smoking room.

This was in the 80's. Admittedly some peers are now in prison but many, many others have useful productive lives. Some are real movers and shakers. One used yo write speeches for Gordon Brown.

Has a comprehensive education changed so much since the 80's?

I all also would like to take issue with the idea that private = better teachers. Most teachers in both the private and state sector are good at their job, some are truly amazing, and some shouldn't be allowed within 500m of a child. The difference is the conditions in which you work. Private school teachers usually have far fewer children to deal with so can give more individual attention, don't have to spend large amounts of their time working with those who have special needs (although I know this is not the case in some schools), don't speak much English or have severe social and emotional problems due to their crappy home life (although again I know there are a few of these in the private sector!). They also on the whole have far less paper work and restrictions governing so can concentrate on what and how they actually teach. It can be argued that state school teachers are more skilled at their job simply because the huge amount of juggling they have to do with the variety of needs they need to face.

They are alos no less likely to better qualified. I work in the state sector and several of us have masters in education, I don't know about degree class because quite frankly unless you are teaching A Level to high ability children it really doesn't make any difference to the quality of teaching. I very much doubt that the most able of teachers I work with are those with firsts (but maybe they are, I really don't care).

You all sound so reasonable with your class sizes and good facilities arguments . The parents I know that go private do for almost tribal reasons - they went private its the thing to do and the fear of the unknown state sector is strong. Lots of myths about the state sector abound. Meeting the right sort of people is a definite factor too.

Actually I think that everyone should go to private school. Parental choice is a concept that is bandied about ad nauseam, but the reality is that it is illusory for most people. With an education premium paid to parents for each child, schools would have to do what the parents wanted a lot more and standards would improve. Sadly it is not possible to improve standards in state without either sacrificing your own child's education or becoming the bane of the school's existence and earning a reputation as a troublesome and/or pushy parent. As much as schools say that they want more pushy middle class parents in, in practice they fear them. It's just convenient to blame people for withdrawing their DC from the state system for the decline in standards.

NormanTebbitt, I don't hink comprehensive education has necessary changed that much since the 80s. It still remains the case that there are good schools and bad schools.

As an aside, I found this quote on DSs school website:

" has always taken particularly to heart

Well they have to accept poor children through nurseries etc to keep their charitable status.

Can I ask - are the fees tax free? As a sort of 'donation' to charity?

I was in state education until I went to university and was lucky, my schools and 6th form college were excellent and I was also a hard worker and bright.

My boyfriend, at the time, and his brother went to a private school. I fared better at the exams etc. than they did (to be fair, they didn't work THAT hard) and I never felt that they had more academic advantages, or that the curriculum they were taught was more advanced, or that facilities were much better.

HOWEVER

What I did realise was that the school they went to, and the people they met their (well, the connections they made) potentially opened a lot of doors for them in later life. Not in a sleazy way, necessarily, but they were mixing with politicians' children for example, or heads of large companies.

I would always consider sending my child to a state school, but I do think life can be slightly easier (generalisation, I know) once you get to university and beyond, if you've had exposure to a private school education.

• can't believe I put the wrong 'there'.

'bursaries' bloody phone

having shown my DH this thread, he has suggested that we have a look at the 3 preps in our area! its the speacialist teaching from year 3 that has touched a nerve.

I guess the reason why people want to send their kids to private school are pretty obvious:
smaller class sizes
better discipline
more support from parents
the contacts
the extra curricular activities
teachers who genuinely have an enthusiasm and calling to teaching rather than nothaving anything better to do than convert their degree to a teaching qualification
....and.... (oh I know I'm going to get pelted with rotten fruit for this....)
"our kind of people" as my mother would put it!! With fringe benefits of: a "nice" accent and no desire to wear *

LOL! Well so the theory goes. And on the other side of the fence are those who believe that state education would be better if all the concerned parents actually sent their kids to the local school instead of pulling out their support and sending their kids to private school. And then there are those who just can't afford it or can see the benefit of extra curricular activities that they themselves would fund with the money saved by not going the private route.

For me, I think different kids thrive in different atmospheres. And a lot depends on your local school and what the catchment area is like.

• I refuse to elaborate further here because someone will pipe up "I wear a blah blah blah and I'm not a chav!"

ninkynonker really?! about class sizes? you must have taught in little village schools or something. Around here, 34 is the legal limit, and they are full in every class at dd's school, with a waiting list!
Much too much, but what can you do? (Without a bit pot of cash of course)

And garage that was exactly my experience. I remember starting one job where 'the boss asked me what school I went to and I was confused by the question as I was sure he would never have heard of it, living in Buckingham Gate, educating his sons at Eton etc I soon learned to mutter ' oh you won't have heard of it...'

Mind you these days I could not tell the difference between friends who were privately educated and those state educated in terms of lifestyle and income. I do live in a middle class area though.

Has anyone mentioned that now, when it is true that most teachers in private schools are qualified, that it is the state that pays for them to become qualified. I think the private sector should pay back to government the amount it costs to train each teacher. Private medicine kind of does that already-private consultants are usually Nhs practitioners too.

I guess the reason why people want to send their kids to private school are pretty obvious:
teachers who genuinely have an enthusiasm and calling to teaching rather than nothaving anything better to do than convert their degree to a teaching qualification

Do you honestly think those kind of teachers don't exist in private schools?

Well I went to private school and couldn't relate to my peers at all with their yaughts and private jets. There's more to education than grades imo and inclusion is very important. Private schoold don't do inclusion.

Well I went to private school and couldn't relate to my peers at all with their yaughts and private jets. There's more to education than grades imo and inclusion is very important. Private schools don't do inclusion.

Oh yes; and ideologically it grates too. The rich getting richer and all that. And don't even get me started on the old boys network. I n fact I';m pretty sure I would have thrived more had I stayed at the comp with the commoners normal folk.

The teaching at my two childrens' private schools is excellent.

But you have to go to my other sons special state school to see truly fucking awesome teachers.

teachers who genuinely have an enthusiasm and calling to teaching rather than nothaving anything better to do than convert their degree to a teaching qualification

This is such a ridiculous statement. I have yet to meet a teacher in the state sector who matches this description. Any that do won't last long, the workload and demands means that you won't hang around unless you actually want to do the job.

"I was a very eccentric child who was obsessed with reading and I would have been eaten alive at state school."

someone said that a while back.... my eccentric 14 yr old dd does nothing but read and is thriving at her state school, with a motivated peer group. I don't imagine anyone would "eat her alive" for that - what an ill informed assumption!

You're not talking about state v private schools, you're talking about good v bad schools. And both types exist in both sectors.