to wonder what the fuss is regarding Private Schools?

[peppapigandhumf]

A friend has 2 kids at a local prep school. She doesnt really bang on about the school to me etc but i wonder why bother pay for education when schooling is free.

Is it really just about small class sizes and fancy expensive uniforms?

You are so unpleasant that I refuse to waste any more of my life listening to your vile opinions. I hope you never have to spend any time with anybody who does a job that earns less than 100k, for their sake not yours.

Gosh, I was right about it being a volatile subject. So so defensive. If you really believe you are doing the best for your children why get so wound up about one person's opinion - and it would be possible to disagree without offensive swearing.

Gosh

All this seems unnecessarily vitriolic. The fact is that most people can't afford private school even if they give up holidays etc. There is absolutely no point denying that private schools outperform state schools academically in most cases. Saying so won't make them affordable. The question is how to improve them and how to make the best use of the system.

The fact is that most people can't afford private school

Exactly. Does not make us bad parents!!

Gosh this moves fast. Norman Tebbit made rather an odd point furhter down - the worst beahved child in her dd's school was asked to leave the prep. Well, good on the prep, now the other children can get on with their work without its disruptive presence.
Poor show from the state school if all those other well-behaved children can't make the miscreant behave - isn't the the logic usually bandied on here - the good children's ethos will prevail?

Why couldn't the prep make him behave? With it's small class sizes and wonderful facilities? And superior teachers?

I don't understand why the school couldn't have invested it's considerable resources in him. In kindergarten! He was 5! Not 14.

Well clearly none of you even like your children otherwise you would be home educating you bunch of selfish people.

You should be ashamed.

Who can you expose your children to these toxic environments?

I am shocked.

Excellent point Norman Tebbit (not a thing I enjoy saying). All very nurturing and all that until a five year old poses a few challenges, eh?

"I actually don't need to make assumptions - these threads are littered with reasons why people send their children to private school(small class size, facilities, mixing with like minded people bla bla bla). Most of which I happen to think are ridiculous and do make massive assumptions about state school."

I have made no assumptions at all. I visited the schools on offer and I know what was there. I made comparisons of the out of borough grammars, the one local comprehensive we stood a chance of getting into (excluding the failing school and the one with the security guards) and the two private schools. I was perfectly able to compare all of them and thus had no need to make assumptions.

You, however, are making huge assumptions that people who send their children to private school simply think the private school is better and haven't done any research. However, if it makes you happy, please feel free to continue to pretend you know people better than they know themselves. I'm big enough to take it.

We. know. you. like. the. private. schools. you. chose.

Jesus.

I think it's just more palatable to beleive that all private school parents are completely ignorant of what's on offer in the state sector.
That we are frightened of it.
That we don't want our children to mix with poor people.

The reality is, of course, much more complex.

Many of us were state educated ourselves.
Many of us have some children in state, some in private.
Many of us moved from state to private (we know that the stats show that there are more children in private at 11+ than at reception. And more still at 16+)
If MN is anything to go on, quite a few state teachers send their DC private.

But all this gets ignored.

Too inconvenient.

But to be fair, Litchick, quite a few private school users have come on here and said all of those things as reasons why they wouldn't use the state sector! Your first list, I mean. So clearly there are some who do think like that.

I do know that isn't everyone's rationale. I do know lots of people think about it very carefully, agonize over it even, and I do know that everyone who makes that choice does it in the sincere belief that it's the right thing for their child. And I know some of them were state educated, etc.

I'm not saying 'private school parents think x y or z'. I'm saying that, for me, private schools are not something I'd ever want a part of; that I disapprove of them and that I would challenge the reasons given - however carefully thought-through and sincerely-held those reasons are.

Soupdragon - I don't make any assumptions about that at all, indeed I have never even mentioned anything to do with research.

I think that people are duped into paying out large amounts of money in paying for private school, sold to them like a dodgy insurance salesman over a variety of contexts and using a variety of myths, and in fact the reality is that the type of child who goes to private school (generally with supportive and involved parents) will do well in any school. If you believe (like the Xenia's of this world) that IQ is fixed and something you are born with - why on earth would you need a costly private school - it doesn't all add up.

Then by sending your child to private school you perpetuate inequality in our society, which is bad for everyone - including those who chose to 'do the best thing for their child'.

Then joan you have my respect.

I may not agree with you, but admire your conviction.

Thing is state schools are just as unfair as private eduction, favouring the blessed few who can afford it. For those who are so pro state and anti private will you be sending your children to the worst state school in your area or will you be applying for the best one you can get your child into - even in the state sector it's hardly an equal playing field. I'm picky and will do what I can to get a good state school for my kids - I will consider private if they are allocated the reportedly 'worst' school in our cachement area.

No, it's not a level playing field. And yes, you make choices about where you live if you're lucky enough to be able to - and one of the things you think about when you're deciding which house you want is what the local schools are like. But the thing is, the people whose local schools really are struggling are probably the people least able to consider going private anyway - no matter how many holidays they give up or old cars they drive. I do agree it's not right that I can live somewhere in the catchment of a school I like a lot and not everyone can. But I'm pro-state - not a communist!

So I don't think it necessarily follows that if you are anti-independent-school, you therefore shouldn't be allowed to make any choices about where you live. Although I am pro-state, I don't argue that the catchment system is perfect, or that all state schools are perfect.

I never claimed to have the answers. But then, the pro-private-ers don't have any either, do they?

Ok, so you can pick and choose your 'idealogies' according to what is convenient. So 'yes' to state allocated education, 'no' to state allocated housing - since that suits

So Joan are you saying you live in a nice area with a good local state school? If so, then you've probably bought the best education you could afford - just like those chosing private.

Mrs GG - state education is not really the same as everyone living in an identical, designated house, is it?

Begonya - no. For example, I also chose not to live somewhere with the 11+. And no, my area isn't amazing - it's not a sink estate, but it's not a mews or anything either. And the school takes from its catchment, which includes a big council estate and a traveller's site. It just happens that I'm very happy with it as well. SO no, it's not the same as spending thousands a year on private, and there are children both much wealthier and much less wealthy than my kids there.

Quite agree begonyabampot. For us, educating 2 kids privately for secondary was cheaper than moving to a comparable house in a good catchment area.

Still think it's the same Joan, if you think that private kids going to a state educated school will up the standards then if you feel that strongly - you should send your kids to the worst state school in your town - to help up the standards. My kids go state for the moment as I'm happy with the school but would probably move or aim for a great cachement area rather than go down the private school route.

So the best way to prove my principles would be to sell my house and move, having researched the least well-performing school, and send my child there? Really? And sending them to the school down the road makes me some kind of failed communistic hyprocrite?

Blimey, can't do right for doing wrong, can I?

But you are so strident in your views against private school parents that yes I think you should be prepared to go the whole hog for your ideals, some of those parents who maybe never had the luxury of getting their kids into a good state school which you have or hopefully will do.

Depends if you are one of the posters who belive that if all the 'private' school kids joined the state system it would improve. on that logic, yes, of course you should because then your children (whom I assume are 'good' kids, 'cos their mum is interested/engaged in their education) would 'improve' the worst performing schools. (This is the 'logic' we hear all the time locally about a secondary that is almost the worst for added-value in the country - if the 'private' children went there it would improve )