to wonder what the fuss is regarding Private Schools?

[peppapigandhumf]

A friend has 2 kids at a local prep school. She doesnt really bang on about the school to me etc but i wonder why bother pay for education when schooling is free.

Is it really just about small class sizes and fancy expensive uniforms?

Oh I think her posts are actually rather telling...

What makes us so different from Germany or Sweden or the US that we have this endless cultural war and accusations of privilege around primary and, in particular, secondary education? In most other developed countries private education for children is really a non-issue, whereas here we see entire swathes of the elites of society, particularly in politics and the media dominated and in thrall to those who were privately educated.

I find it profoundly depressing that in the UK we are locked into a spiral of introspection, class resentment and privilege ingrained from the earliest years, our arrogance preventing us from learning anything from our neighbours as they leave us behind.

I know many 'successful' state school educated people - it is utter nonsense that only privately educated people are 'successful'.
I know many privately educated people who are average achievers and drug addicts.

My state school friemds are horrified that basically every girl in my private school was bulimic / eating disorder-y. The pressures were very different to what they describe as pressures at state school - and high academic achievement often comes at a cost - and that is usually in the form of hidden mental health problems.

It is impossible to distinguish how relevant private schools are because obviously it can be argued that the type of children who go to private school have, by definition, involved and 'bovvered' parents, and thus it really doesn't matter what school they go to, they will do well anyway simply because if the aspirations and confidence that are instilled in them at home. So, hence the argument that they are a waste of money, and that the private schools have a vested interest in peddling the myths of state school pupils and education.

Oh yeah - at my private school we had an in-house counsellor because we were all rexic/bulimic/self harming. The pressure is just so huge. We all had coke problems too but now 99% are in v successful jobs and fine.

"I bet you can't point to any state educated surgeons or perhaps politician or perhaps banker?"

Politicians - the Miliband brothers, Diane Abbott, Andrew Smith (Oxford East), William Hague, Don Foster (Bath). Well that's a cross party selection of 6 names for a start.

State education wasn't good enough for Diane Abbott's children though, was it.

Are they all a bit neurotic and devoid of humour though, happiestblonde?

Norman Tebbit, re feminism - in my daughters notes on A Midsummer Night's Dream I noticed comments about the patriarchy, so I'm not too worried about her feminism. (12 years old, private girls' school). Mind you, in my experience girls' schools are more feminist than mixed, whether private or state. Can't speak for boys' schools, I've never been to one!

Some people here are doing their 'cause' more harm than good I fear and painting us privately educated types in a very poor light. My parents would be thoroughly ashamed were I to have such a hideously ignorant (not to mention incorrect) world view. But I guess it demonstrates that there are some things private education can't buy you.

I went to a private school, was crap.

I don't want my DDs to go to a private school.

PlanetEarth Interesting that your daughter is studying MSNDream at 12 ! That almost answers the OP's question I think. You are paying fees so that your daughter can be taught a Shakespeare play when she is ready rather than wait for the rest of her cohort in a state comprehensive to catch up on their reading skills. If that's what you want, then good luck to you. Other people may not want a daughter who can read Shakespeare so good luck to them too.

Some of the least motivated/intelligent adults I have met were privately educated though. I find it all very confusing

To paraphrase Samuel Beckett: The cream of Britain, rich and thick.

Planet - my remark was aimed st a poster who seemed to think a beautiful, talented state-educated friend achieved success on the casting couch. I am sure your DD is doing feminist analysis of texts as I was a 12 - although we did Sylvia Plath and Shakepeare in third year.

BB most of the drug addicts and career criminals I have met ( was a lawyer, so I met them on a daily basis) went to state school.

I think what this tells us, is that it tells us nothing.

You can't take any person with undesirable characterisitics and blame their schooling, be that state or private.

Norman was it you who mentioned social mobility?

I've been thinking a lot about that, and whilst I concede that on the face of it, it appears that the same group of people continue to be in power and authority, in reality I wonder if things actually aren't changing.

Sure, privately educated pupils are absurdly over represented in the best paid jobs, but are those attending private schools a different set of people?

Certainly, I am a first time user, as are most of my friends. We are what is charmingly called 'new money'.
Lots of immigrant families also increasingly send their children private.
None of us have any interest in holding up the status quo. Quite the opposite.

Many many middle class adults who were privately educated themselves, however, simply cannot afford to send their own children.

So there is some movement iyswim.

Much more to say about this () but just quickly - crossword - they read Shakespeare in state schools, you know! DD read (admittedly bits of) several plays at primary school, and The Tempest in year 7.

(and The Tempest was not 'bits of' - I just means that about the stuff in Year 4 at primary.)

Has someone on here really said that in order for your child to read Shakespeare they have to go to an independent school?

The level of misinformation among private school parents is extraordinary!

Litchick - indeed re social mobility. My father's family were very poor - in my dad's family he discoved that in the last century - eg after 1900 - people in his family had died of starvation. The only toy his sister had was a doll, which was destroyed in bombing two days after she as given it for her fifth birthday. My parents were very keen on education as the way to have a better 'whole' life, not just materially, and encouraged us. We went initially to grammar schools, which were abolished while we were there. It was a struggle to buy uniforms etc, and I later discovered that we qualified for free school meals, but my parents wouldn't accept them in case we children were stignatised. (I wish they had acepted them! I would NOT and still wouldn't have cared a jot about 'stigma' ) DH & I also highly value education - as far as we are concerned, life not worth living unless you are learning every day. We have a good jobs and earn enough to pay for the kind of education that suits our children - so that is 'mobility' surely? Or shoudl we mobilise them back 'downwards'?

The thing is, everyone assumes parents who pay for private education have no knowledge of state schools...but I don't buy it.

A lot of us were state educated ourselves.

Also, the numbers of children educated privately increase hugely with age. There are far more children in 11+ private than primary. And there are more still at 16+.

So unless I've gone mad, all of those parents must have experience of state education, or where were their kids beforehand?

I was maybe the first to mention Shakespeare, and it was in the context of feminism...

Anyway, our decision to send our kids to private school for secondary was informed less by knowlege of private schools (we don't move in those circles, and weren't privately educated ourselves) and more by friends' experiences at the local state secondary.

"The thing is, everyone assumes parents who pay for private education have no knowledge of state schools...but I don't buy it."

Then why do they behave as if they don't? With the exception of a few personal experiences of where state education has failed a child (and it happens - of course it does) I rarely see a general opinion about state education which is not based on either poster's own childhood or on hearsay and assumption.

No one should base their views on education in 2011 on their own education (private or state). The education my eldest 3 DC received is totally different from the one the 3 younger DC are receiving now at the same schools.

I am not envious of parents who can afford to pay, but too many on MN know everything there is to know about state schools, and in many cases it's obvious they haven't been inside one for years.....Except maybe on polling day.

For the same reason that many still peddle the same nonsense about private education, I suppose.

Lack of proper thought.