No British - No Women

[MrSpoc]

I have just come across this article:

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Huntingdon-St-Ives-St-Neots/Playgroup...

am i being unreasonable to be disgusted at how this can be legal.

MrSpoc - it may not be right, but it would be legal under the terms of the Act to have a Women's Toddler Group, as sex is a protected characteristic.

If men are being catered for elsewhere then yes. If a group of men in a community state they feel unwelcome in a particular group, then why not? It is just improbable though as men do not tend to be shrinking violets about getting what they want.

"Just to take the argument one step further - is it right to exclude men form toddler groups?"

If it's a non-commercial entity then yes, absolutely.
If it is a commercial enterprise then they will have to comply with relevant law and statute and perhaps show why such and exclusion is justified to serve the needs of another section of the community and what services they provide. They may also cater for men at other times or with different men only toddler groups but may exclude men from one particular group.

Mayorquimby I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say.

so would it be legal then to have a mens only toddler group and turn away women because they are all ready WELL catered for? and because sex is a protected characteristic?

Here are the aims of the group
I note that it is free, I bet the normal toddlers group isn't.
I also note that one of the aims is "?bringing communities together and facilitating interaction between them"
How are they going to do this if part of the community is excluded?
Another aim is "To develop cross-cultural friendships". They are not going to meet this aim, are they?

All of the4 aims of the group are admirable, but I just think there are better ways of going about it.
Inclusion works for everyone, or it's called exclusion.

apologies so. It can be hard to judge the tone or context in this medium.
If I misconstrued your post or attributed any opinions to you which you do not hold or did not convey it was an honest mistake and I apologise.

"so would it be legal then to have a mens only toddler group and turn away women because they are all ready WELL catered for? and because sex is a protected characteristic?"

When you say group do you mean commercial or non-commercial?
f you mean commercial would the enterprise cater exclusively for men at all times or would they simply have certain groups or times during the week set aside as men only?

THis is a disgrace. How are non-Brits supposed to integrate into the community (one of the supposed aims of the group) if there are no other Brits there? It's an absolute nonsense.

Who decides the rules about what is inclusive?
Oh, yeah, the dominant group.

Who is to say that providing this sort of support doesn't develop cross cultural friendships? Maybe the the group is a first stage stepping stone to provide people with the confidence to integrate?

Im finding this debate very interesting but im still very confused.

so what if someone opened a group like this and everyone was welcome except latvians?(not picking on latvian people, just that it is a nationality that isn't british)

would that be ok or would that be discrimination?

At first I would of said it was discrimination but now im not to sure.

Still not sure what I think about this.

But I'd be interested in people's views on a couple of examples and their relevance or otherwise.

While I was a postgrad at Edinburgh I was a member of PAMS house - PAMS standing for "postgraduate and mature students". Undergraduates of the normal age (except, perhaps, as guests) were very much excluded because the whole point of the club was to mix in a way that did not include the majority. It was university-funded. No one seemed to mind. Same or different?

Also, ThePosie said something about a French playgroup near her and that she is "sure she would be welcome." I happen to run just such a toddler group and can categorically state that, in the case of the group I am involved in, you would be very much UNwelcome - unless you had a toddler who had French as a home language. Your nationality would not come into it - but your fulfilment of the stated criteria would matter immensely. Again, relevant or not?

Fuck the certain groups of women who are uncomfortable around men at toddler groups....

This is secular, thank God , Britain. WE're all equal, we don't exclude like that. WE can be hugely inclusive, but the trouble many immigrants have is that they don't fit it, integrate and how can they?

The Ex pat community is bullshit too, expats are not exclusive, but generally the host population doesn't want to join. That's the difference, having a focus or exclusion.

Iloveit....if Latvians were the majority group then yes.

Your nationality would not come into it - but your fulfilment of the stated criteria would matter immensely. Again, relevant or not?

Sorry that was what I was trying to say, these playgroups have a common theme that is a bit of a prerequisite...but not exclusive, but they don't say don't come if you're not blah blah, but they do say a club for FRench Speakers!

posie, there is another thread running at the moment which might interest you and your beliefs- compfan started it.

I cannot imagine being a 'foreigner' anywhere and choosing not to mix with the locals....

"They are being excluded because they are already well catered for -it is not a disgrace it is about supporting those in a community."

but why does supporting them mean excluding british people. would those two british women have hindered any support offered to the non-british attendees? would they be taking support away? no they wouldn't.

Why would an expat faily get more support from a group that contained say, some Italians, Greeks, and Pakistanis, but no-one from their own country of origin, as opposed to 'British' Mums.
Do the organisers check everyones passports/visa status? How do they define 'British'? Non - english speaking? (many UK passport holders cannot speak English - (parents/spouses of immigrants) If I were an expat abroad, I would positively welcome local mums into such a group. If you have not been bought up in the country you now bring your kids up in, theres a thousand things you can learn from those who have. Birthday party/school/friendship traditions. Get to know all these little quirks and you and your kids will integrate a lot quicker, as opposed to joining a group that seems to promote isolation within a group of people whose only common denominator is living in a country you were not brought up in.