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AIBU?

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Original poster

No British - No Women

415 replies

MrSpoc · 20/01/2011 15:13

I have just come across this article:

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Huntingdon-St-Ives-St-Neots/Playgroup...

am i being unreasonable to be disgusted at how this can be legal.

OP posts:
claig · 20/01/2011 17:27

The Daily Mail gives a lot more detail.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348564/British-mothers-toddlers-banned-council-funded-playgroup-immigrants.html

It looks like government ministers think this is not right

"Ministers said the group was ?divisive? and ?racist?.

Last night the Department of Communities and Local Government announced it would effectively abolish it by cutting its public funding.

Communities and local government minister Bob Neill said: ?It is a real cause for concern that monies allocated for community development are being spent in such a divisive manner.
?Rather than building good community relations, such an insensitive approach that seemingly discriminates against British people threatens to undermine community cohesion.?

Justice minister Jonathan Djanogly, whose Huntingdon constituency includes St Neots, added: ?I?m upset to hear that constituents have had a racist experience. There is a question here of legality and also of sensitivity. Teaching people how to integrate involves allowing people to integrate.?"

The Cambridge article says
"Making Links was set up in 2007 and more than 70 women from 30 different nationalities attend."

It looks like it was set up in the Labour period.

Psammead · 20/01/2011 17:28

MrSpoc i see what you are saying, but I consider 'foreign' to be a group in itself! The conversations I have with other foreigners are, at times, quite different to ones I have with locals. It doesn't matter where they are from! There is a shared sense of not knowing quite exactly what one is doing amoung the non-local community which can only be appreciated by others in the same situation.

It certainly doesn't mean I don't try to intergrate. I would go mad if I didn't.

MIFLAW · 20/01/2011 17:31

"But why wouldn't you want British people there?? Thats the point? Why would they actually say "no" to a mother who had come in with a child. How humiliating. WHy would she ruin their group?"

Because she represents all the things they are trying to get a breather from - even if she was a lovely, supportive person rather than (say) the sort who would make a big deal out of it and go to the press.

And why is it humiliating? They haven't asked her to strip or accused her of having her fingers in the till. They've said it's not for her. It's annoying and embarrassing, I grant you, like walking into the wrong changing rooms at the swimming pool - but isn't "humiliating" a bit strong?

Original poster
MrSpoc · 20/01/2011 17:33

Psammead i never assumed that you did not try to intergrate and i am sorry if that is what you thought by my comments.

I was trying to say that there are alot of countries around the world and alot of them speak English as their first language. for you to go to this particular group you would not be garanteed to meet anyone from your home country but could easlily go their and it just be full of aussies or Americans. I am struggling to find why they felt it neccessery to tunr the two women away.

OP posts:
purepurple · 20/01/2011 17:36

claig
glad to see that the funding is going to be pulled on this. The daily mail artiicle makes all the points I have already made on this thread (Grin how weird, to agree with the daily mail)

LadyOfTheManor · 20/01/2011 17:36

Maybe they assumed the friend was a "foreigner".

Maybe they asked her what her nationality was, and like most people, she got confused with race and said;
"half Malay" (half whatever else).

I don't know why you'd want go to to something you weren't welcome to. Go elsewhere, find something else to complain about...

LadyOfTheManor · 20/01/2011 17:37

The difference in articles has gone from;

  1. THey asked me what race I was
  2. They asked me what my nationality was

2 completely different things.

claig · 20/01/2011 17:37

purepurple, read the Daily Mail more often. It is well known as being the voice of reason.

TheEvilDead2 · 20/01/2011 17:37

I think she was right to go to the press, the same as the two gay men who went to the Christian hotel and were turned away.

If the group was set up with council money to be a place for "foreign people to go and not be around the British" I suppose they are doing right...

But it was meant to help them integrate you can't integrate with only other foreigners.

I never felt I "couldn't breathe" around locals of any country I was in. If I did I would have come to the conclusion that I had made a mistake and gone home.

Psammead · 20/01/2011 17:38

yes MrSpoc bur Aussies and Americans are just as non-local :) presumably the majority language would be English anyway, out of necessity. It's not a case of wanting to meet a fellow national, but rather, as Miflaw more eloquently puts it, of taking a breather from trying to keep up with the locals and to meet people with which one has something major in common.

LadyOfTheManor · 20/01/2011 17:40

Claig, I sincerely hope that is a joke.

purepurple · 20/01/2011 17:42

claig I think I am more in shock that I agree with a tory minister Shock

Original poster
MrSpoc · 20/01/2011 17:42

Ladyofthemanor - the two girls were invited by their friend. They did not know they were not welcome. The girlss did point out that thier friend was infact British but because her parents aren't she was welcome.

If i created a toddler group andsaid it was for just white males i would be rightly done for being a racist.

Or could i use the deffence that you said below?
"I don't know why you'd want go to to something you weren't welcome to. Go elsewhere, find something else to complain about"

OP posts:
Psammead · 20/01/2011 17:44

TheEvilDead2 why do you assume that these women don't intergrate? Based on one toddler group? You have no idea what lengths they have or haven't gone to to intergrate.

Also, there is nothing wrong with wanting to take a breather. Feeling like you want a place to go to where you can relate to other people in a similar situation to yourself is no reason for giving up and 'going home'.

scurryfunge · 20/01/2011 17:45

MrSpoc -go back and read the much earlier posts! (the ones about who is already catered for and who are already in the majority).

LadyOfTheManor · 20/01/2011 17:46

There's a group just for males where I live. Should I start lobbying that its sexist or perhaps make use of the 40 other groups available to me?

purepurple · 20/01/2011 17:46

psammead If the women already are able to integrate into the local community, then the whole group is pointless then, isn't it? And a waste of taxpayers money too.

TheEvilDead2 · 20/01/2011 17:47

Its set up with council money to promote intergration. You can not just do whatever the fuck you want with money when its been given with a purpose in mind.

ANd i am highly suspicious of people who choose to avoid the people the natives of the country they live in at all so I would have little faith that make a huge effort otherwise.

claig · 20/01/2011 17:47

purepurple, give Tory ministers a fair hearing. They are also well known for the voice of reason.

claig · 20/01/2011 17:48

for being the voice of reason

claig · 20/01/2011 17:50

purepurple is right. This is about taxpayers' money, meant for the benefit of the entire community. The ministers are saying that this is divisive.

purepurple · 20/01/2011 17:50

claig I think you jest with me, no?

claig · 20/01/2011 17:51

Not at all! I am trying to make you see past the calumnies of the progressives.

begonyabampot · 20/01/2011 17:52

i really don't care. I can see a group of foreign women feeling less intimidated if they are all in it together. Believe it or not but some people from different cultures/countries might find some British/English women intimidating. If this group let in 'british' mums then before you know it, it could become overrun with those mums - in a way pushing out and changing the makeup for what the original group was originally set up for. A group of 'british/english' women can actually be a bit overwhelming for some people.

hogsback · 20/01/2011 17:53

LadyofTheMannor - so you are arguing that you are not excluding Brits, but are simply restricting services to a group that you define as "International" or "Foreign".

However, in doing this you exclude British people, which puts you within the remit of the Act.

Your only real available defence is that you are providing a service to a group that share a single protected characteristic.

You then need to demonstrate to the judge that "International" or "Foreign" is a single protected characteristic. This would make an interesting test case, but I don't think you are going to have much luck proving that all "International" or "Foreign" people share a single colour, nationality or ethnic or national origin, which is what the Act defines as "race".