Baroness Warsi taking advantage of her position

[GORGEOUSX]

In thinking that it hasn't taken Baroness Warsi long to take advantage/abuse? her position by saying that she wants to fight bigotry towards Muslims.

Of all the causes she could have used her position to put her weight behind, I'm dismayed that she has chosen this one.

Perhaps Baroness Warsi will suggest to her fellow muslims that they should have a bit more tolerance of non-muslims around their own dinner tables and then maybe the media wouldn't be so quick to describe them as moderate or radical.

GorgeousX - Who, exactly, is telling you you can't "express concern" over whatever? Who are this nebulous 'PC brigade' that always come up in these debates, that are watching over everyone's thoughts?

The previous government had a program to try and counteract the "radicalisation of the young Muslims in Britain." So were they bigots? Racists? Or were they the people stopping debate by calling everyone racist? You can't have it both ways.

By the way, a party like UKIP has the same immigration policy as the BNP, but they don't attract the same opprobium, mainly because their entire party wasn't founded on racist principles by neo-Nazi thugs (they were founded on xenophobic principles by the more... eccentric wing of the Tories, but that's another matter!).
So an entirely legitimate way to 'express concern' without being called a racist there.

"Ok, my final word: I don't give a crap whether the bloke who blows himself up does it because he's read the original document, narrated by mohammed or been taught by an immam from an incorrect translation of the koran. The fact of the matter is that somewhere down the line he's been taught something in the name of Islam which has inspired him to strap on an exploding waistcoat."

Exactly. It's to do with what people are taught, not inherent within any particular belief system. You can achieve the same thing with any set of ideas that involves them and us.

TheCoalitionNY And your reasoning is that, therefore, we should not use the words moderate or radical when discussing Muslims at the dinner table? (Not that I know anyone who discusses Muslims at the dinner table!)

What should we say then - "He's a nice Muslim because I'm sure he'd never do that" or

"He was a thoroughly unpleasant Muslim because he has done that"

or maybe even, " He wasn't a very nice person but he blew himself and a bus load of people up because he believed Allah would reward him in heaven"

Don't mention the Muslims, or the words Moderate, Radical..... as in ....don't mention the war..... in everso polite society .....

I like Baroness Warsi and she's entitled to her opinion.

Of course, she's never actually been elected and shouldn't be entitled to vote in Parliament but that's another matter!

Always did wonder why Nick Griffin never pointed out that she wasn't an elected representative when they were on Question Time. But then he's not very bright is he!

No he isn't very bright Rhinestone..he's a blithering idiot

Love the phrase 'blithering idiot' - must use it more often!

Although think it's overly generous for Nick Griffin!

Well I do think it's sometimes wise to be kinder to the idiotic.

Otherwise I get so wound up and risk giving myself a thrombosis :)

I, too, think that Baroness Warsi is a thoroughly decent lady - she e-mails me regularly (along with millions of other Tory voters, obviously) - and agree that Nick Griffin is, (to keep it pc) challenged, in the grey-matter department.

I just think her decision to champion this 'cause' is unfortunate when there are so many other more-deserving IMO causes.

Would that be Nick Griffin the Cambridge law graduate that you're calling an idiot?

A well educated idiot is still an idiot.

Yes that's the one.

A good education is often wasted on idiots, I'm afraid.

So idiocy is defined by how much you agree or disagree with their opinions?

YABVU

Bluenordic - a 2:2 from a lesser college...ahem

He certainly fits one of the definitions of 'idiot'

1. A foolish or stupid person

Hmmm...could be that one

1. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers

Might also be that one, judging by his appearance on Question Time

I've met people with all KINDS of degrees who are thick as shit.

In Nick Griffins case I think he displays a certain 'flogging a dead horse', 'incoherent political beliefs' and 'continuing to believe things after they have been demonstrated to be false' kind of idiocy.

GorgeousX - I don't have a particular point concerning the words moderate or radical - I was more concerned with the point that looking at Islam specifically as a way of explaining these behaviours is to look in the wrong place.

Now you ask though, I can see a danger in that kind of language resulting in a correlation in peoples minds between degree of devoutness and
chance of being a terrorist - a correlation that doesn't exist. (Many suicide bombers come from relatively secular backgrounds for instance).

I'd just talk about Muslims if I meant Muslims, Terrorists if I meant terrorist, and medievalist patriarchal cunts if I meant medievalist patriarchal cunts.

I have not read Warsi's statement though, so I don't know if that's what she meant.

I think she said that wearing the Burqua wasn't necessarily a sign of either being oppressed or making a political statement - I don't agree with that - I think it i ALWAYS and inevitably making a political statement, though the wearer may not necessarily mean to.

I find it fairly hypocritical to be lectured by Baroness Warsi on intolerance and the "ongoing battle against bigotry" when she is pretty intolerant and bigoted herself.

When she stood (unsuccessfully) for parliament in 2005 she sent out leaflets saying "Labour reduced the age of consent for homosexuality from 18 to 16 allowing school children to be propositioned for homosexual relationships."

And how about this one? "I will campaign strongly for an end to sex education at seven years and the promotion of homosexuality that undermines family life."

And the really funny part of these comments? They were only in the leaflets that were sent out to the predominantly muslim part of the constituency. The other areas got comments about immigration.

TheCoalitionNY I think we're in agreement over a number of things - I like your 'shoot from the hip' attitude and your comments regarding cunts.

I'd just talk about Muslims if I meant Muslims, Terrorists if I meant terrorist, and medievalist patriarchal cunts if I meant medievalist patriarchal cunts

Now that is a good place to be :)

Agreed.