What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

runawayfishwife: when you say "trigger something which was going to happen anyway" do you really believe that?

so, eg vaccination as a trigger for autism - say in mitochondrial disorder cases (it is medically accepted that htis happens)

no vaccination = no trigger = no autism.

so, when is that autism going to set in? (genuine question - I don't understand how you think that avoiding a trigger for something is in any way the same as saying that something is going to happen regardless)

FACT: MMR IS NOT EVEN A TRIGGER FOR ANYTHING.

The man who wrote this has literally been charged with a crime for making this shit up.

If your child develops Autism, they will develop Autism. Stop looking for someone to blame, it can't be helped.

You should take that back Adsense. You have no idea about Leonie. Not vaccinating does not make a person a bad parent.

Are you mentally deranged adsense? My God you're irresponsible. What kind of mother has so little interest in her children's medication?

That depends on whether you consider being gullible, fear mongering and sensationalist media junkie bad qualities in a parent.

I'm sorry if taking a logical, evidence based approach and having postive repeatable results makes me mentally deranged.

Abr1de - from the nhs website:

In 99% of cases, polio is a mild condition that causes very few symptoms. Some people do not notice any symptoms at all. A mild case of polio usually causes flu-like symptoms, which may include:
sore throat
a high temperature (fever) of 38°C (100.4°F) or above
nausea
vomiting
diarrhoea
constipation
These symptoms usually appear between 3 and 21 days after someone has become infected with the virus.
Paralytic polio

The paralytic form of polio is very rare. Less than 1% of people are affected by the condition. "

paralytic polio is rare. yes, it can be very severe but even the paralytic version can be mild and people can recover from it. So there are lots of non- horror stories about polio but again, we will only ever hear about the worst. Probably because the majority of people won't even know they had it!

SF she might have been meaning my post where I said I think MMR may have triggered ds3's asd but that I suspected something else would have regardless.

She may not, obviously.

This is it isn;t it though? We don;t have any real understanding of epibentics and how it works. We get the basic ones- PHU is inherited but without the environmental presence of Phenyl in the diet it would remain invisible.

We know that there are high numbers of cases of disability in some areas- eg the research into ASD alongside freewqays- but w don't know why.

We know very little about any of it, except that thre is no cause for 'autism' becuase 'autism' is really just a collection of symptoms presenting together, and the actual disorder is lots and lots of different subgroups.

The loittle reearch into brain physiology and ASD backs that up; the genetic research backs that up.

So, soemtimes those of us with a known genetic susceptibility to a specific life stealing disorder make decisions that heck, may be wrong or may be aginst otehr people's beleifs (although there is categorically no research either way in the mainstream).

One may nto agree with that; people not understanding that though begs belief IMO and then comes down to 'I wish you to palce your child in a situation whcih you beleive will place your child at risk in order to rpotect mine from the quite low chance of catching something they ahve been vaccinated against and the even lower chance of them having long term damage'
er no. Ta anyway

Non horror stories about polio? Erm..90pc of cases, if not more? Except there wouldn't be a story as you might.not know you has it. Blink, sniffle, what was that?

'FACT: MMR IS NOT EVEN A TRIGGER FOR ANYTHING.

Wrong.

As I said autism is a condition that is many different ones under a groped heading: it is know to be epigentic but the trigger side of the equation is as yet unidentified.

This is fact.

I am not really into the whole Wakefield thing either way- I persoanlly think the info about him out there on both sides has become so emotive that a judgement has become impossible to make (bit like as to whether Bettelheim was a loon or not).

But nobody has a clue what the many triggers for ASD are, becuase nobody ahs even managed to differentiate the sub groups yet.

That's relaity.

Sadly ic an't post my accrediatation up yet as I ahve a stats module to complete but by jjune that will be Peachy, postGrad Dip ASD; and a year later should be Peachy MA (ASD). that must at elast suggest a little reading of information that is recent, peer reviewd, and not rpesented in a hysterical fashion otherwise i;d be failed rather than being top of class.

And yes I know my typing sucks and makes me look too dim for an MA.

And a lot of people whoa ovid the MMR choose single jabs and only don;t get Mumps becuase it has been withdrawn.

I don't think it's that making you deranged. You sound paranoid, vindictive and emotionally obtuse. Maybe you should take a breath and calm down. And find a therapist.

Peachy - maybe re: the trigger bit. but it stands to reason doesn't it, that oyu would avoid the trigger for ds4. and maybe ds4 has the same genetics and will escape all triggers, maybe he doesn't and would be fine anyway.

but since you have seen a regression post mmr with your own eyes, why would anyone expect you to line up your next child for that very same trigger?

it could be the one thing between your ds4 being ASD and him not being. because even if exposure to the illness would be a trigger, there is no certainty he would even be exposed - not like going for the jab.

that is the situation I am in with dd2. she has a mito dysfunction. so I could definitely expose her to something which will probably cause her harm. or I oculd not do so, and hope that she is either not exposed in the wild, or that if she is exposed in the wild it doesn't do her harm. I know which odds I prefer.

I thikn you last paragraph sums it up, really.

99% actually appletrees! See my quite from the nhs website above :) it always surprises me how the people who think they've made such informed decisions to vaccinate seem to know so little about the diseases they are vaccinating against!

Quote*

I know.. well done bubble, just read it. I think it will surprise a lot of people.

Thanks SF

And the other point- whilst I an comprehend if not necessarily act on the concerns of people whose children CANNOT be immunised, on current guidelines by far most children can be and if their aprents have the level of faith in vaccinations they suggest, why do they care if our children are not vaccinated?

And even the herd immunity things doesn't quite work: wher I live for example, herd immunity level is more than reached.

If ds4 had developed ASD despite me doing my best at every little thing- from avoiding calpol and sunscreen (yes he's always coverd, of course he is)- that a study hinted at ever then I'd have coped. With 2 other ASD kids goodness only knows how but just, and I do mean just- as it is I had a breakdown in the summer from it all. Funnily enough some nastiness on Mn triggered that as well (collapsed at psychs office after a very nasty anti-carers thread).

however if there was the material for me to blame myself in anyway then I would, I would g under again and I am fairly sure I would end up in psych care.

It's a big ask, tbh.

1 in 100 chance of getting a severe form that often killed within hours, if you get what was at the time an epidemic, no thanks! It's precisely because it's not easy to detect and has mild forms that it spreads so easily, hardly a great advantage. But it is a risk assessment, I agree, like vaccinating for swine flu.

Luckily for you, most of the world has taken very seriously eradicating deaths and disability due to polio, so unless your children travel to the four countries who haven't eradicated polio (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, I can't remember the other), then there isn't an issue.

Not likely to eradicate it any time soon, while vaccination campaigns continue mass injections of opv in slums with no sanitation, this ensuring the dissemination of live virus shed in diarrhoea.

Not one in a hundred paralysed :s read the quote.

Onetomany - the fatal version was more rare than that. The paralytic version could also be mild and people recovered from it.

Oh dear...these kinds of threads make it so hard to make a decision about vaccinations. One minute I am really a pro-vacc post and it makes sense to me and I think, 'yes, I agree with that', then I read a against-vacc post and agree with that.
I have at least 3 friends who did not vaccinate their children. All children are very well and healthy. They have done their research and decided not to vaccinate. Personally i don't agree with the 'NHS government conspiracy' theory though, (One of my friends is convinced of this).
To be honest though I haven't done enough research to be really convinced of the arguments against vaccines. I just wish i would stop dithering and make a decision. The against vaccines group are so powerfully against and have very good research to back them up though. Why would they be so convinced if there were not something to back them up? It's not an easy decision for me.

Good lucky with it mumsgo. It's a decisión you continue to make through their childhoods, if you decide not to. You can always delay, change your mind. I am so happy with My decision and feel more and more strongly about it.

mumsgotatum all I can offere as advice is make teh decisions one at a time.

When we gave our older three the MMR we did what I still beleive was right for us (which is why I always feel slightly when I am accused of ebing anti vaccination)

By the time ds4 came along we had more information about our family that changed a lot.

Even if you decide to immunise you ahve options such as single rubella and measles; many people I know give MMR later on and singles when small. If mumps has nto become accessible by teh time ds4 reaches adolescence and he has not been infected I suspect I will follow that route.
Just take each decision by itself as it comes along and base it on what you know of your family: why i would make the same decisions with an ASD aprent, grandfather and two asd chidlren I do not know LOL. Each family unti is unique IMO.