... to think that most MNers live in a bubble?

[frgr]

Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite).

In real life, the average income of my family and friends is probably circa the national average. I know for a fact that my BIL is on around £6/hr and works 42 hours a week, I know that my best friend's total family income is about 22k because she was talking about mortgages a month ago... I'm talking about hard working people who go out come rain or shine and do their day's work, to provide for their families.... and then I log on here and find out MNers are posting trivial shit about being unable to afford XYZ and feeling hard done by on their incomes of "only" 3x the national average.

I don't know if I've become more sensitive to this crap since starting re-posting on here last year (after a break of about 3 years), but it seems to me that certain members of MN are totally and utterly oblivious as to what the average family is having to endure during this recession.

It's fucking unbelievable, it really is.

In your opinion, why are so many MNers out of touch with reality? Does this site cater to a different class than me? Are avg MNers just generally deluded - do I even belong here any more, with our 21k combined income, worrying about where the next school trip fee is coming from despite the fact that both of us work?

Christ.

totally agree with the op, on a similiar income

the thraed that really makes me raise my eyebrows just now is the one about "if you bother work full time and have kids and no cleaner......" FFS, does everyone here have a bloody cleaner? where do the cleaners go when they want to log on, it sure isn't MN these days

Desiderata is a cleaner. Lots of people from all walks of life on MN and tbh that's why I log on to it.

Everyone is in a bubble surely?

How come people who are successful and earning money are not living in the real world? So only if you don't have a pot to piss in, then you are a real person, living in a real world and having real problems? Wtf?!

By the way, I am not on 70k a year, in fact on the opposite side of the spectrum but it's not other people's problem that they have load of dosh and you don't. If you put so much effort into making money (as it seems to be so important to you) as you are into being wishing others had it as bad as you, you would be rolling in it.

I agree with BoffinMum.

That's what I meant by everyone being in a bubble.

You live in different circles, different things are considered "normal", house/commuting/childcare/etc costs all vary massively within the country, but in your particular circle of friends they are all probably rather similar, so you think it is "normal".

The great thing about MN is being able to speak to people outside of your bubble and see how what is "normal" varies so much.

Even if we looked at everyone's income after tax/NI/mortgage/utilities/commuting costs, some people will have done better out of that than others (bigger house or car vs small flat and getting the bus) and the remaining cash will go further if you live somewhere where a pint of beer is £2.40 rather than £4.

RedHeels - I think you might be my hero!

Dammit,posted too soon. Meant to say,is there some sort of boundary above which people can't have problems or post about them for the feat of possibly,maybe,offending someone somewhere? We earn less than nat ave at the mo as I am at home with baby dd and dh is retraining, but I can still appreciate that others on our previous salary level might have worries and problems of their own. They're not in a bubble as such, it's just their lives. We're much more secure and happy than some with more money anyway!

mumsnet does have a large % of posters with tertiary education and other similar markers. Does it also have more in London/SE which might explain some of the financial comments?

I'm not on anything like 70k (actualy I've recently lost my job so I am on nothing ) which probably explains why I don't have a house/flat in London but costs there are huge in comparison, I'm nearly always happily surprised when we go elsewhere on holiday about eh cost of everything.

I remember with aprticular shame a rant about paying for parking in Wales only to discover it was 20p then there is the how many houses can I buy round here for the price of my 2 bed flat game....

I think what the OP was trying to get across is that the problem is people not being grateful for whatever there income is.

A couple of posters on here have said how they earn upwards of 70K, one being a single parent, by shear hard work, grit and determination.

But what struck me was there attitude towards earning that amount in comparison to the thread about the school fees was that they were careful with their money, were making the most of that money and didn't expect support from anyone else because they felt they were self sufficient.

I earn £16k and I am supported by tax credits as childcare (i get an extra £2k though don't qualify for WFT) is still my biggest bill. I feel financially secure though we have had one holiday abroad in 7 years, didn't go away at all last year and have to manage hand to mouth some months. But I run a home and car, we are warm and clothed. Uni is not even a consideration as I can't realistically afford to save more than the £10 a month I already do.
But that is price I pay to work part time and in the long run not earning more will probably have a negative impact.

I have no issue with people on 70k struggling but I have issue with the feeling that they deserve support because they are 'struggling'. It would be like me demanding extra tax credits because I can't afford to go on holiday.

When the news broke re: tax credits being scrapped for those with an income over £40k the News at Ten described those families as 'middle income' - does that make me poor??

DH earns 19k works bloody hard to do so, is always in his overdraft (does not smoke, drink, gamble, only goes out one night a week to play darts get a lift to and from and spends £1.90 on a pint of coke) so not really living it up.

We have to pay £33 to DS2s school next week for some gym classes and we just don't have it, its not nice telling a 10 year old he has to give up something he loves.

For me maltesers' comment about not even thinking to count the HB in as a part of income is not living in the real world. Regardless if people earn 15k or 50k, the large chunk goes towards rent/ mortgage. Having it paid for you and not thinking that that money usually comes out of people's earnings is living in a bubble. Also the glorified 70k is no great shakes after the tax comes off. 20% for the first 40 grand and then 40% of the rest (correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what it is).

I think it depends where you live. Living and working in London DP and my combined income is probably just below that mark but it's also wildly more expensive to live/rent/put down a house deposit. I don't think it's fair to say people do not live in the 'real' world - just like being less than a size 12 should not mean you are not a 'real' woman (thanks unilever).

I get the impression there are people of all incomes on here - from quite wealthy & priviledged to very low earners and people living on benefits. My impression is most people on mN are doing well getting by on what they have got. I don't get the impression most or even LOTS of MN'er are very wealthy.

I'd advise you don't get hung up on judging people & their lives by how much or how little they earn.

Dragonhead- oh, the pressure of future expectations

I'm the OP, and I'm quite busy this morning, but I didn't want to just disappear after posting this relatively controversial thread.

I do, however, want to take 2 minutes to clarify something. I will come back and read the later posts this evening, esp. since with the clarity of say I see that relative income is a much more relevant topic. Quattrocento said:

For me the OP is saying that anyone who earns over £70k is living in a bubble

This I categorically want to say is wrong and inccurate; perhaps my original post was poorly worded, apologies if so, but I definitely don't think that, and want to make that point specificially. I do think gapbear places my true feelings articulately with the following words, though:

I think the OP was saying that people on high salaries who complain about not being able to afford what the majority of the population perceive as luxuries (eg private education) are arses.

She is not saying that well off people don't work hard, or don't deserve the money. She is no saying that less well off people don't work just as hard for their pittance.

BINGO.

that is the crux of the real matter, to me. And it's what made me have a small wibble, for the first time, that perhaps I don't belong here after all.

Dayshift if you have 200k equity in your house not in my book if you rent it certainly doesn't make you rich

Although I personally am a bit about those who choose to work part-time or not all all considering themselves poor (not saying that you did just saying I feel a bit biscuity when others on here do)

YANBU and your explanation explains why you do belong here

things are often tougher for the less well paid IMHO

OP - but that's not what your OP said, is it...

As many posters have said the majority of people (not just MNetters) live in a bubble.

Whatever the political and economic causes we are in a recession. It seems to me that each "bubble" has it's supporters whether it is "We work damn hard to earn this money why shouldn't we spend it on our children's education rather than on the shiftless and work shy", through we are a married couple with two children hubby works hard but is only on minimum wage so we need out tax ctedits to survice. I can't go back to work because of childcarecosts/feel I perform a more useful function as a Mum than as a bank clerk/no work around in my profession, to I am a single parent and have three kids, one Dad is unemployed, one in prison and I don't know who the other one is so you'll have to pay me benefits for ever because I left schoo; at 14 and can't/won't earn enough to support myself. (extreme examples, not my viewpoint)

Each of these extremes can justify their bubble not being touched by austerity measures, and equally can see what efforts people in the other "bubbles" could make. I now this is a diversion from the original post, but we all need to accept that our bubbles are going to become more uncomfortable, very few of us think we can affort to take the hit and the sword should fall elsewhere, but we are going to have to face the fact that for all except the very rich (Millionaires not 70K a year earners) are in for tough times.

Redheels: ''For me maltesers' comment about not even thinking to count the HB in as a part of income is not living in the real world. Regardless if people earn 15k or 50k, the large chunk goes towards rent/ mortgage. Having it paid for you and not thinking that that money usually comes out of people's earnings is living in a bubble. Also the glorified 70k is no great shakes after the tax comes off. 20% for the first 40 grand and then 40% of the rest (correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what it is).''

Indeed! we are in that bracket. In fact, once you take off the tax & NI we are just about on the same level as someone on a lower tax threshold who most probably gets WTC and higher CTC..maybe even help with the rent or they may even have a lower mortgage.

Everyone's circumstances are diffrent. Just because we have a rather big salary between us doesn't make us rich, but I often feel bad for telling people I struggle sometimes... :(

Precisely!

Bloody hate tax.

I agree with Trillian, most people do live in their own bubbles, and normally socialise with other people who share their financial/social/intellectual assumptions. Mumsnet has a very broad financial catchment so suddenly people are mixing in wildly different circles, which leads to s all round.

Socially and intellectually however we're much more homogenous - the vaccination thread is full of people (both pro and anti) who are sure that the decision not to vaccinate is almost always taken after thorough research, on fully reasoned grounds because that's how it is in MN-world: now that is cloud cuckoo land.

we don't have that sort of money. I am trying to be thrifty after christmas but my 2 teenage dd got taken shopping yesterday and it is hard as they always want new stuff.

and don't start me on their phone contracts. £30 instead of £10 but offered to give me some money towards it.