... to think that most MNers live in a bubble?

[frgr]

Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite).

In real life, the average income of my family and friends is probably circa the national average. I know for a fact that my BIL is on around £6/hr and works 42 hours a week, I know that my best friend's total family income is about 22k because she was talking about mortgages a month ago... I'm talking about hard working people who go out come rain or shine and do their day's work, to provide for their families.... and then I log on here and find out MNers are posting trivial shit about being unable to afford XYZ and feeling hard done by on their incomes of "only" 3x the national average.

I don't know if I've become more sensitive to this crap since starting re-posting on here last year (after a break of about 3 years), but it seems to me that certain members of MN are totally and utterly oblivious as to what the average family is having to endure during this recession.

It's fucking unbelievable, it really is.

In your opinion, why are so many MNers out of touch with reality? Does this site cater to a different class than me? Are avg MNers just generally deluded - do I even belong here any more, with our 21k combined income, worrying about where the next school trip fee is coming from despite the fact that both of us work?

Christ.

Some MN posters think that if you struggle on £70k you shouldn't complain but move to a shite area where houses are cheaper. TBH I know very few people who aren't stretched whatever their income.

The attitudes on this and the other thread show exactly why true class and true intelligence have absolutely nothing to do with monetary income or socio-economic categorisation, but absolutely everything to do with ones attitude towards that income and to other people. Anybody at any income can be truly lower class and/or stupid.

I know people both on MN and in real life earning just over a quarter of a million combined, and I know people earning rather less than one tenth of that. There are couple of both personality types in both brackets.

And so to answer the original question, yes, YABU, most people on MN do not live in a bubble, nor do most people in real life.

Aren't perceptions funny? I always get the impression that most people on MM are a bit skint. I guess it depends on which direction you are coming from. We are on a high income, I am not actually sorry about that and do chat about my life on here as well, MN is for everyone.

I don't think anyone Should feel shit after reading the thread. I think the main points that come across are:

A) this is a complex issue with so Many variables that its impossible to generalise. It is quite possible for some one on a higher income to have LESS money left over each month after paying essentials than someone on a lower income.

B) we are talking relative poverty, not absolute poverty, and anyone in a third world country would be utterly bemused by the entire thread

C) whatever our current circumstances, it is likely to get harder for all of us, as the country is in an economic mess, through massive overspending. Interest rates will rise. Fuel bills are horrendous.
Benefits, tax credits etc will be massively reformed.

agree with boffinmum

housing, travel and childcare costs are so hugely variable that you can't possibly compare on incomes alone.

when we lived in London, DH and I each earned 35k in public sector keyworker roles. Our 2 bed flat in a notoriously violent part of town cost twice as much per month in rent as our current mortgage on a 3 bed house in an ok area in the north-west. factor in commuting costs, and childcare at £70 per child per day, and we certainly didn't have enough left over for holidays and waitrose goodies.

Now, on a vastly reduced income in the North, we have spare cash at the end of the month. And we have a whole house, with outside space, and can afford to run a car for the first time. we are lucky that our jobs were portable. some are tied to living in expensive areas either through work, or family.

Motloth- that was also my impression

Maybe it's like the BBC. Rightwingers are always complaining that the BBC is getting too LW, and left wingers are always saying that the BBC has a RW bias.

I think the ones that moan about being on the high income are probably not very happy. You see it often on mse and other sites like that of people on high incomes who are in financial trouble because of overspending. I think that is why some people moan about it on here.

Life is stressful if you have debts regardless of income and often overspending is a sign of not being happy with your current life situation, in the same way as overeating etc.

I agree with you, OP.

Not sure whether it is "most" MNers though.

I think it's a bit harsh to say that people with higher incomes don't live in the real world - is one person's reality more worthy than anothers?

I can see it from both sides and feel very strongly that just because you have a higher income it dosn't mean you are not a good person.

DH and I both came from very poor families growing up - I remember very clearly not having enough food and not having nice clothes or holidays however I had a very happy upbringing due to my wonderful mum. DH not so happy ( long. long story) but his experiences during childhood have made him a very driven person so something good has come out of it.

We are both in our late 30's and have worked ince we left school ( no university for either of us -I was too thick and DH couldn't afford it despite being a brainbox).

Through sheer determination ( and maybe a wee bit of luck) we are earning just over the £100k mark ( 60:40 split -DH is the higher earner). Now we are NOT struggling but I definately don't consider us loaded but that's mainly to do with the fact that as your income increases over the years your expenses creep up.

This is becoming a long post but bear with me...

I think my point is in our world we are around the norm - most of our friends we've met though work so they are in a similar demographic. We both have some family members who struggle but tbh it's because they don't work ( that's another story).
If I'm honest I don't know many families who's comined income is much less than hours -not through design just the area where we live etc. Does that make me a bad person???

I know we are very lucky -our incomes aloow us to have a nice life but I won't lie and say from time to time I have a moan and wish we had more money...

YABU to think you don't belong here. Most of my friends and family are the same as you. There's plenty of people here on benefits due to some really unfortunate circumstances like severe mental illness and disability. They would make your life look easy. Depend which forums you go on and threads you choose to read.

Agree it's very hard to pinpoint who is struggling as there are so many variables. Agree it is all relative. I'm on benefits but grateful to God I live here and not in Haiti or Iraq.

What about the thread where the OP complained about too many people being on tax credits and got flamed?

My dh earns about 50k and we are in the real world. We can't afford DFS for furniture even. Ours was the cheapest one in another store on finance. I don't shop in Marks and Spencer and Waitrose for groceries. We use Asda and Tesco. Kids clothes come from Asda and Tescos too.
We have months where we things are tight but we manage. Would never say we struggling but we do not have money to waste.
It is also true that we have a high mortgage and commuting costs for DH are high.
I can understand your frustration op. Certainly complaing about not being able to get a Bursury for private school is crazy.

Well, my income as a single parent is 6-7k per annum. . .Am on Housing Benefit, went to private school, educated but picked the wrong men, raised their kids on my own have no job as still have 10 yr old at home, and left with nothing !!!
. . . . .please put that in your pipe and smoke it anyone over 15k per year.

I have a job and have a 6 year old

Yeah but maltesers counting in hb etc then you are probably on a bit more than 7k.

Maltesers -could you not work now?
You seem very angry - surely you don't grudge that other people doing well?

For me the OP is saying that anyone who earns over £70k is living in a bubble

This is manifestly untrue

It would however be true to say that anyone who earns over £70k and complains about it probably needs a reality check

Eeerrr i guess so. . .was not including the income of HB which purely pays the rent. . . I was just thinking of my income to pay bills etc clothing.

I would count that as quite a bit of money left over lol. thats what I mean its all perceptions I suppose. I think it all depends on your area, who you hang around with etc.

"It irritates the hell out of me that people cannot take on board the complexity of family finances in this way."

boffinmum - I think people are not necessarily very sympathetic to the complexity of other people lives and, actually, I have a lot of sympathy with that. It has become widespread for families to think that they can live in one place, for both adults in the couple to work in another, to have children with more than one partner and for those children to go to school somewhere different still to both homes they live in... Why do we think such complex logistics are a good way to live our lives? What real added value is there in such complexity?

I live in the real world and we are not on the bread line far from it - how rude to say that people don't live in the real world just because they happen to earn more than you.

And remember that everybody in their lives will struggle with something, addiction, infertility, mental health or physical health problems, disfunctional families, bereavement - they are problems that we all encounter in the real world even those of us that are financially well off - our real worlds are different but no less harsh than yours because we have the cushion of financial security.

Interesting thread!

I wouldn't know what to do with 70k a year!!

Ladywellian makes a good point about 2 teachers in London earning 70k, but I guess the relevence of the still struggling is cost of living. In London you can pay 3x the NA for a house smaller than average.