... to think that most MNers live in a bubble?

[frgr]

Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite).

In real life, the average income of my family and friends is probably circa the national average. I know for a fact that my BIL is on around £6/hr and works 42 hours a week, I know that my best friend's total family income is about 22k because she was talking about mortgages a month ago... I'm talking about hard working people who go out come rain or shine and do their day's work, to provide for their families.... and then I log on here and find out MNers are posting trivial shit about being unable to afford XYZ and feeling hard done by on their incomes of "only" 3x the national average.

I don't know if I've become more sensitive to this crap since starting re-posting on here last year (after a break of about 3 years), but it seems to me that certain members of MN are totally and utterly oblivious as to what the average family is having to endure during this recession.

It's fucking unbelievable, it really is.

In your opinion, why are so many MNers out of touch with reality? Does this site cater to a different class than me? Are avg MNers just generally deluded - do I even belong here any more, with our 21k combined income, worrying about where the next school trip fee is coming from despite the fact that both of us work?

Christ.

I think people do tend to live to their means, so I can kind of understand why someone may feel the pinch no matter what they earn. What really does get to me though is higher earners (and I have read it on here quite a bit) saying things like people shouldn't rely on any benefits, including tax credits, that those people should either work harder (like them) or not have children! That as where I feel "some" higher earners are living in a bubble.

It is unfair to say some people live in a bubble

I would love to earn 70k too but I do not begrudge anyone who does - they pay their tax too and a lot at that and are entilted to be heard without being judged for talking 'shite' (your words)

It is all relative and people on that kind of money get shafted by the government too you know!

Rather than focus on the fucking bankers and their zillion pound bonuses the government shaft low and middle earners instead

I don't know how we all survive (low and middle earners) anymore, I really don't

Conniedescending - yeah because it's easy to sell your house right now and yes, of course they can move their settled children from the school they love to the nearest state school - but if they're having to do those things due to the recession aren't they entitled to whinge as well?

Mrsscoob

I see what you are saying and I sort of agree in a lot of ways but they are coming from a different perspective and they don't get any kind of benefits and pay a lot of tax too so they probably feel a bit 'uh'

I can honestly see what you are saying but what they are too

If they live in a bubble from 'us' so do we from 'them'

We earn nearly 70k - 3 kids, 3 grandparents, SIL and baby, BIL and baby and wife and neice currently supported by us so fair enough I think!

There's no point at looking at headline salaries. It all depends where you live, how many kids you have, and what family help you have locally.

I had a lot more disposable income when I was a single parent on 11k in London than I do now at the top of the lecturer pay scale out of London. I used to spend £43 per child a week on childcare - now prices have escalated due to reduction in supply, over-regulation and introduction of the minumum wage, so I pay £150 per child a week for three kids. I used to be able to manage without a car, hop on a tube to go to work and cap my travel expenses, whereas now I have to do a 70 mile round trip by car after being made redundant from my local job, so I spend £100 a week or more on petrol alone, and I am charged handsomely by my employer for the privilege of parking at my own workplace (I am supposed to cycle!) Similarly food costs around here are steep, as established on another thread, so I am spending a minimum of £25 a head on housekeeping costs for a large family, sometimes more. The things I used to do at the weekend or in the holidays when I was supposedly 'poor' are pipe dreams now.

It irritates the hell out of me that people cannot take on board the complexity of family finances in this way.

My DH earns a very good salary (not 3 figures though), and I wouldn't dream of coming on here and moaning about how we couldn't have xyz or were struggling because it simply wouldn't be true.

But, I do get a bit annoyed when posters say 'oh anyone earning over £X amount is rich/not living in the real world/doesn't work hard/is just lucky' blah blah and so on.

Yes we are fortunate, but we still have a budget to balance like anyone else, the bills have to be paid and unexpected expenses factored in. I certainly can't just swan about spending money on whatever I like - not even close.

It is worth pointing out that 3 x gross salary does NOT equal 3 x take home pay. Once all the tax and NI has been paid there isn't as much left as you feel like there should be!

No but it's rapidly descending into a 'why are so many people utterly incapable of understanding the miseries of PAYE' thread.

I think people are getting on their high horse a bit and missing the point.

Although clumsily worded, I think the OP was saying that people on high salaries who complain about not being able to afford what the majority of the population perceive as luxuries (eg private education) are arses.

She is not saying that well off people don't work hard, or don't deserve the money. She is no saying that less well off people don't work just as hard for their pittance.

I think that some well off people do live in a bubble regarding being able to afford luxuries like holidays and wine, but equally some less well off people who manage to keep a roof over their heads, no matter how much of a struggle that is monthly, are technically in a bubble of their own, that is to say, don't always recognise that they are themselves lucky not to be in temporary / emergency accommodation, or have no home at all.

We are all in bubbles, in one way or another!

YY at competitive poor. I bet some people haven't got their heating on still. Even though they have 2 holidays a year

Speak for yourself gapbear. Many of us on here flog ourselves half to death in the public sector and see plenty of the darker side of life.

Yes - boffinmum - I'm one of them

I am another one who is on a high six figure income and I found the struggling on £70K thread annoying. None of us have a right to send our kids to private school etc and if you can't afford it on £70k then maybe your previous financial decisions haven't been very good and so you have to live with the consequences. Most of my family are not particularly well off whereas most of my colleagues are. I think some of my colleagues have no idea at all what is like for some people like my siblings with 3 kids and an income around the national average.
One of my tests is to ask them how would they cope if their fridge broke I think all of them would just answer that they would go and buy a new one and then start debating american style v normal etc. It is a different reality

Very good post boffinmum.

We also each spend hundreds per month just on petrol to get to and from work. Often people on low wages will be working very locally, so don't have the massive commuting costs.

I think MskLo's point is very true- if there are some people who live in a 'rich ' bubble with no idea of the real world, then equally there are people who live in a bubble the other way round and have no idea how little disposable income can be left from a good income, once tax, national insurance, childcare, commuting - all the UNAVOIDABLE costs of working - are factored in

Spikeycow

Haha- sounds like my mil.

And sky- since when - did sky become an essential item?

Gosh, doesn't everyone on MN earn over 100k a year?!! Very surprised to hear that - didn't realise poor people were allowed on here

Surely one thing that seems to be overlooked is that most people like to moan and vent a little?

It doesn't matter if you earn the minimum wage, work 70 hours a week for £100k or you won the lottery last month you will still believe yourself to have problems.

I guess what is needed is a little empathy but having browsed mumsnet for a year or so I know there is plenty of that on here too.

I haven't read the threads that are referred to- I am pretty good at judging by the title to see if they refer to me.

Thats the good thing about mumsnet - there are threads for everyone. My (low level) of posting is restricted to threads that I can relate to.

Violethill- petrol is a nightmare. We spend £1000 a month on it. Cars do at least 35k each a year and need replacing every 3-4 years.

If we didn't travel we couldn't do jobs (mine is a travelling job- his was moved by company)

Nobody does competitive poverty like MN.

High earners weren't always high earners - chance are they had years of not having a pot to piss in too.

I also don't think that having a comfortable income suddenly makes you oblivious to other people's issues.

YABU - DH and I are lucky in that IMO he is very well paid and so we are comfortably off.
But I see many, many threads from other MNers who really do struggle because they are on a low income

Many of them do get and give brilliant advice on managing a tight budget.

Yes there probably are a few people who do give the impression of living in a bubble - but to be fair, a lot of depends on where you live. The cost of living in London and the SE is pretty scary, so our combined income of about 55K goes a lot further where I live (NE England) than it would in London. And I really think they are in the minority it's just that you probably notice them more.

So I think in general MNers are very aware of how the world works.

And yes you do belong here frgr

OK haven't read all of the thread but have to say that DH and I both fell into the 70k bracket until we were both made redundant in the space of a couple of years. DH has found something else paying about half of what he used to get. I am struggling to find anything that would cover childcare and commuting costs.

My point is that rather than thinking they live in a bubble, my thought when I read those threads is whether or not they appreciate how fragile their world is and mostly based on the luck of the draw?

YY about sky tv!

Ive also seen a regular on here who often bangs on about being skint, let slip that she has an iPhone- didn't realise they are essential items either!!

People have very different ideas of what 'essentials' and 'luxuries' are