... to think that most MNers live in a bubble?

[frgr]

Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite).

In real life, the average income of my family and friends is probably circa the national average. I know for a fact that my BIL is on around £6/hr and works 42 hours a week, I know that my best friend's total family income is about 22k because she was talking about mortgages a month ago... I'm talking about hard working people who go out come rain or shine and do their day's work, to provide for their families.... and then I log on here and find out MNers are posting trivial shit about being unable to afford XYZ and feeling hard done by on their incomes of "only" 3x the national average.

I don't know if I've become more sensitive to this crap since starting re-posting on here last year (after a break of about 3 years), but it seems to me that certain members of MN are totally and utterly oblivious as to what the average family is having to endure during this recession.

It's fucking unbelievable, it really is.

In your opinion, why are so many MNers out of touch with reality? Does this site cater to a different class than me? Are avg MNers just generally deluded - do I even belong here any more, with our 21k combined income, worrying about where the next school trip fee is coming from despite the fact that both of us work?

Christ.

Fair point

We're on a £100K+ combined income and while it's not quite the spend-without-thinking utopia some people think it is, I wouldn't come on here to complain about struggling in a month of Sundays. Not that we are struggling (touch wood).

It's bragging by stealth at best, distasteful and pretty thoughtless at worst.

I don't understand why people are declaring their earnings on here anyway

I'm with you anonymosity

I do think that some high earners are not able to empathise with those who are earning alot less and struggling - but that doesn't make them out of touch with "reality" - they just have a different "reality". I think just as many people who are on benefits etc could be said to be out of touch with "reality" - i.e. the reality of valuing education, of not depending on the State etc etc Yes I know that most people on benefits are there through no choice of their own etc, but perhaps the same could be said of some of those on higher incomes??

It may be a different word to see some folks earning 100 k but at 50% tax and 11% national insurance aren't they subsidizing lower earners by supporting benefits that they never have? Or paying council tax at a higher rate and enabling council housing for those that need it.

In the meantime a lot of high earners pay for their own healthcare, freeing up such treatments on the NHS for those in need, and put their kids in private school, freeing up their place in state schools in their areas so resources should be greater?

I agrees it is perhaps a bit mad to come on and say you are struggling, but now the thread seems to have gone from being puzzled, to attacking people for their earnings as a class thing?

I am from a very rough working class background, physical abuse, violence, lived in 2 council houses, Father couldn't read or write, parents got knocked up when they were 16. My brother lived on berries from the garden, I kid ye not, for a week when there was no money for food.

I paid for uni myself by the skin of my teeth, there were times when I wouldn't eat, and I did about 4 shit unpaid jobs. Then when I worked it was the same at the beginning of my career, I would wait at the supermarket for the 10p loaves so I could eat.

I earn £100000 a year, independantly, my husband has just retired from the forces. I work bloody hard for it, I'm not skint, but I am saving hard for the future, so I will hopefully not have to work to hard in a few years.

Also when you get to my position in what I do, you are flavour of the month, and if there is a change of managers you can just lose everything, so your earnings peak and trough on that basis.

What I am glad for is the survival mechanism of being poor, if I want to save I do know the best way to live cheaply, and I know the value of my money. Perhaps that is the issue with the other thread, perhaps in context to her friends 70 k was the lowest salary so she thought she was the poorest of the bunch?

It wouldn't be fair if high earners turned round and told lower earners to get another job would it? My SIL is a cleaner and works 20 hours a week and is always moaning aabout how lucky i am and expecting me to sub her when we go out. I don't sit there moaning back at her that I work 60 hrs a week for it, and tell her to go and get another 2 jobs.

Not every high earner is a braying Jemima on here op. It may be a different world for me, but I clawed that for myself, and it was bloody hard I can tell you. And it can go wrong very quickly if I don't keep working even harder.

1. There are the points made above that someone on £40k who is then subject to tax and gets no housing benefit etc might not be that much better off that a family who get teh maximum £20,800 housing benefit , plus state benefits free school meals etc.

1. I couldn't easily live on £70k.... would hardly pay the school and university fees etc never mind my divorce settlement on their father.... you can kick me for saying that....

1. More seriously yes I think those of us who have worked very ahrd, done out time buying everything for the children as we did in our early 20s, in charity shops etc do know how hard it is with little money. I deliberately try to keep myself conscious of how a life in poverty is. I only drink tap water. I like walking and reading. I could genuinely personalyl survive on very little as I'm not materialistic but I do wake up hugely appreciative that I picked work which earns me what I do and that I have the capacity and desire to work 70 hour weeks whilst bringing up 5 children alone and I appreciate it when I'm here. Last January I was working partly in Iran. Try managing that with a lot of children as a single parent. Life isn't that easy if you have a high paid job either but we make choices and get on with it. I was at my desk at 7am today here on a Sunday quite happily as I love my work and it's at home today so dead easy but even so. We tend to reap what we sow in life.

1. I have children in their early 20s. I know how little money students have.

I can of course recommend to the poor taking a leaf from my book and drinking only tap water as your tip for saving mnoey today, no tea or coffe, no soft drinks and no alcohol and it's terribliy good for you. win win all round. Add up just on that one point what you spend in a year on all drinks.

Sorry but I just don't see that drinking tap water is a huge sacrifice.

Lots of us work bloody hard, not just high earners. I don't begrudge anyone working hard for their money but I do resent the implication that we could all earn mega bucks but working harder, it's not always as simple as that depending on circumstances.

We are on over 70K too..I earn over £45K on my own.we dont find it hard but do have our own issues.

What I do get sick of (and why I left another site) is the reverese snobbery and also the acceptability of constant moaning about "when my benefits will arrive" and "im so skint". I felt that was a bubble as well.

Not harder, longer?

You live by your means and if these people have done well enough to earn that then well done them I say.
They will pay more tax than the rest of us. Im not one of them btw. I earn a crappy 8-10 grand self employed but I love what I do. I'm lucky hubby earns a good wage (under 45k tho) I don't consider us rich but some might I guess. We have a nice lifestyle but that mainly due to the fact I bought my first house in the early 90s so we don't have a big mortgage as a result, as we profited from the house price Increases every time we moved. We certainly don't have posh long haul holidays or polo lessons or private school.
YABU to moAn about others that have done well.

Inverted snobbery on MN is rife.

The name calling and presumptions made about higher earners would never be tolerated if it was the other way round.

.Trust me its not I get sick to death of being called a benfits scrounger ( im a carer for ds).

Sadly theres bashing that goes on at all levels

But yes i do think whinging about 70000 being poor is not on and private school is not compulsary

probably by a fair few here my standard of living is pretty low .

But in my eyes we do ok roof over head , running water etc.Yes sometimes money is really tight and yes my furnitures second hand rather than new .

Some people will yell im poor no matter what income they do or don`t have.

It entirely depends on where you live ime. If you live in the more expensive parts of the country (London being the obvious example) then 70+k doesn't go terribly far.

To directly compare how well off people are in relation to each other, you have to take into account more variables than just their income.

I just worked out that I spend approximately £200 a year on Pepsi Max.

Yesterday I cut the cable package down a level and congratulated myself on saving £10 a month.

What do people call poor though .

Is it unable to pay school fees.Unable to have holiday abroad .Unable to have a holiday full stop or unable buy new furniture or is it being unable to feed your dc which to me is the real defination of poor

For x my x sil yells poor as she cant afford to take dc on holiday they have never been .

Yet she goes out every other weekend but thats how she chooses to spend her money

Salary is really irrelevant in the crrent climate as house prices and the cost of living across the country varies so hugely that what seems a fortune in the south is actually very average.i know people on large salaries with huge overheads because of property prices and childcare etc.They are struggling just to stay on an even keel.Haven't noticed anyone ever say what they earn on here though until today

well I earn 15 K and work bloody hard for that. I also went to a red brick university and got a first and worked 25 hours a week throughout.

I often work over my hours in a very difficult job

of coure higher earners may work equally as hard but they have the benefit of seeing a reward for their toil and dont have to worry about feeding the kids and keeping the heating on

if someone is struggling to pay for a mortgage on a 5 bedrfoom detached house with an acre of garden and send children to private school then I really have little empathy and yes think they're a twat of the highest order. That problem is easily solved...downsize and send kids to state schools and get the feck over yourselfs at the same time

YABU - some MNers may live in a bubble.

I doubt most do.

And its such a generalisation to talk about a family income of 70k, as if any family on that amount must be rolling in it, and anyone on average or lower than average is struggling.

Depends on all the variables. If you were fortunate to buy a house before the big boom, then you can live on a lot less. Ditto if you've inherited money/been gifted a house deposit/school fees by grandparents. (It happens, apparently)

Also, as Xenia pointed out above, if you are getting a high level of benefits (eg rent paid on a 3/4 bed house, council tax paid, plus all the other add ons like free scripts/school meals etc then you may be as well off as a family earning a low income. And of course, someone earning 70k will be paying 40% tax on nearly half of those earnings.

Also, people make different life choices. We have a high family income mainly because we both work full time, and have both worked hard to get promotions along the way, moving house where necessary for that. I am not suggesting, btw, that if you're not on high earners then you don't work hard - just that to an extent there are choices. Many women choose to give up work totally for a number of years, or remain in part time work when their kids are at school. Some families will not move out of their area for work. Nothing wrong with that - its a choice - but its no good then complaining that other people have chosen a different path.

And finally, although we now earn good money' weve had our share of struggles - eg being totally skint as students and in the early years of our careers, living in some shocking places, no heating, living off baked beans etc. And then after a few years of relative comfort, kids came along and we were back to povery, spending half our joint income on childcare. Often with people on good money, there has been a huge investment along the way - it's not all a bed of roses

Op you need to find the cenus ave mn does earnmore than the ave income!

Income is relative, if you are used to gaveing 50/70/100 grand a year that's what you spend. Our income halfed a couple if years ago and whilst we weren't at 70k I know we still get more than some. My life is hard, if I went back to our full family income now I would feel sooo rich.

We also have much more than 70k a year and I am a SAHM and I shop at boden - I also have a lot of children, two of whom have special needs, one with a serious long term illness. I know we are fortunate, I know relatively we do not struggle but I also think I am entitled to be heard. I don't think I post trivial thoughtless shite and it doesn't matter how much you earn it doesn't stop you from being an arse. The person posting about the bursary stuff is just annoying and stupid with apparently no self awareness, this is not the preserve of 70k plus earners just the preserve of someone stupid.

There are all sorts on MN. I don't think it means you're not ';living in the real world' or that you don't work hard if you areearning above the national average.

People on £70k a year may or may not truly appreciate how people on £20k a year experience life. But people on £20k a year in the UK may or may not have a proper understanding of what real poverty is. Swings, roundabouts.

We earn about £100k a year between us, but both come from piss-poor backgrounds. I know what it feels like to be poor. Its shit, and I have nothing but respect for people who work hard and get by on very little.

The thing is, OP, MN is not all about you.

There are people on higher income struggling due to the recession - their fuel has still gone up (and their cars probably guzzle more of it), their food, heating & other costs have gone up, they too are paying more because of the VAT increase, they still have their mortgage to pay like everyone else. A lot more of their income is paid out in taxes, NI etc

Their disposable income has still been affected and yes, they may now struggle to maintain the lifestyle they had before - so they too have to cut their cloth accordingly.

Your combined income of £21,000 is a lot of money to someone on say jobseekers allowance, so why do you get to whinge and they don't?

@woolymind its true can be stupid rich or poor