... to think that most MNers live in a bubble?

[frgr]

Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite).

In real life, the average income of my family and friends is probably circa the national average. I know for a fact that my BIL is on around £6/hr and works 42 hours a week, I know that my best friend's total family income is about 22k because she was talking about mortgages a month ago... I'm talking about hard working people who go out come rain or shine and do their day's work, to provide for their families.... and then I log on here and find out MNers are posting trivial shit about being unable to afford XYZ and feeling hard done by on their incomes of "only" 3x the national average.

I don't know if I've become more sensitive to this crap since starting re-posting on here last year (after a break of about 3 years), but it seems to me that certain members of MN are totally and utterly oblivious as to what the average family is having to endure during this recession.

It's fucking unbelievable, it really is.

In your opinion, why are so many MNers out of touch with reality? Does this site cater to a different class than me? Are avg MNers just generally deluded - do I even belong here any more, with our 21k combined income, worrying about where the next school trip fee is coming from despite the fact that both of us work?

Christ.

Yes, that's what research says. Put yourself amongst others who are less wealthy and peiople are happier. People are also happier with a modest pay rise if others get less and even would apparently prefer half as much as they might otherwise get if others have even less. What a jealous relative lot our species is.

"I've read posts on here from people who think that all council houses are free and only occupied by the unemployed and no one works to pay their rent on them ,so yes some people are so out of touch with my life its unreal ..."

I am sure that is true, Usual. However, I live in the bubble that op is talking about, and I know that not to be the case.

So what am I then? Rich spoilt sahm? or someone with a couple of brain cells to rub together who reads the papers, watches the news, and who has friends and relatives across almost all income brackets (am not actually in the social circle of anyone earning over, say, £500k per year, so can't claim to have exposure to all lifestyles).

This thread is about people earning a certain amount, I'm not sure what it is, more than the national average??? having no connection with "reality" whatever that is supposed to be.

Fgs, my MUM is a 79 year old single lady living more or less on a state pension. My Pil live on state pension and we help them pay their fuel bills.

I am just so angry that people assume anyone with a higher income is living in a fucking bubble.

True, we live in a fairly modest house and area but husbands 100 plus salary is way more than most of our neighbours and friends so we seem very comfortable in comparison - maybe that's why I'm quite content with what wee have. Most of my husbands work peers live in much more expensive houses and areas but we like having a small mortgage which means I don't have to work and we can still live well.

I think there are some high earners on mumsnet but due to the inverted snobbery, usually we just keep quiet as it does seem a bit rude and insensitive to bring it up when so many here do have it hard.

I don't think people are making "fake claims of poverty", donkey.

I think they are saying they are not rolling in cash and living the life of Riley.

Anyone who is not starving to death and watching their children die is not living in poverty, in global terms.

I think the OP has every right to find the claims to be struggling on £70k to be annoying and to assume that the individual lives in a bubble but I don't think most of us do. There seems to be an assumption in the OP that just because somebody might be comfortable now they don't know what hardship is and they have always been comfortable. That isn't true for a good many people. A lot of us have been badly off and then find ourselves better off. Even if you haven't, it doesn't mean that you can't be aware of the world outside your own doorstep.

I am also a bit surprised about what some people think a £70k salary will buy. I know a good few people with a family income of £70k and none of them would be wealthy enough to able to play polo. It is a clique. As for spending £5k on a holiday and £7k on sofas - you might be able to do one or the other but not both, not regularly.

If you take Xenia's figures, which I assume are correct, it isn't even surprising that somebody can't afford school fees on £70k. Even cheap private education costs at least £1k a month - pay for 2 children and you have paid out half your disposable income before you even pay for the roof over your head, food, clothing, transport etc. You could do it but it would involves sacrifices. It isn't something you should moan about though and I certainly don't think it deserves a bursary.

donkeyderby - it would be more humbling to for everybody to live in a poor Southern area for a year of their lives, where the cost of living is much higher and you are even lower down the ladder than a poor person living on the same money in the North.

I read the OP on the bursary thread. I didn't see it as someone complaining. I saw it as someone asking for advice and was there anyone who'd been in the same situation. Were they being unrealistic hoping for a bursary.

The cut off for tax credits for a couple used to be around £60k, so £70k isn't that much above it.

£50k (taxed) would 'just' pay private schooling for two children in the private schools here - that's without school trips or any extras. It could be done but it would be tight Riven - the issue is most people when their incomes go up also upgrade their house/car/pension/holidays as well.

What is the tax credit change? Sorry if this has been discussed.

Thankfully I don't want to put my dd into private school and turn her into an elitist git.

The thresholds are going down for incomes. £50k to £40k. Plus the disregarded income will go down from £25k to £10k.

We are in the 70K plus bracket and as others have said it is not the land of the rich, it is the wage of two teachers at the top of mainscale with a TLR thrown in.

I don't think we could afford school fees for 2, not around here anyway with all the added extras thrown in.

We live in a nice house but not a flash one, when you walk in it just feels like the house of someone who is comfortable certainly not rich. We do not take 5K holidays as a rule, more like a fortnight camping in France. We do shop in Waitrose and farmers markets and eat out a few times a week. We equally don't have a flash car.

I do think we do live in a bubble in some respects though, I would have thought that was the point of earning a decent wage. I want to insulate my children from worrying about poverty. The thing I am most grateful for is that if either of my children express and interest in a hobby we can follow that up without worrying about the financial consequences. Although I am awaiting the day that my son asks for a yacht Again I think that places me in a bubble.

That does not mean my life is any less real than anyone elses - it is just different.

I know there are people on here who struggle for money but I do feel like a pauper posting on here.

I'm not disagreeing with you Riven :) If you can live on £20k then an extra £50k could easily pay for private schooling - personally though we couldn't live on £20k and afford the home we've bought -there actually isn't anything in our village priced less than £300k ( and the properties at that price are flats not family homes).

Riven - I think I know where you live and you can buy a 4 bedroomed detached house there for £250K.

That is about the price of a 2 bed flat in most areas of London.

Having said that - I do agree that people need to choose what their priorities are. Home/location or private schooling as it's hard to do both.

I could afford private education for two kids if I moved to a less expensive home/area but I choose not to.

Ah thanks everyone - I didn't realise it was changing, does this mean more money for families that are really struggling?

It's not an extra £50. I keep saying that . My figures are from those on line tax calculators. Because we support people claiming all these benefits and the unemployed as well as our own families we don't take home the £50k difference between £20k and £70k. We give whatever sum I put above back to the state to spend on arms and the feckless poor and we take a percentage only of that £50k difference (I spent today or some of it, doing my tax return something else the feckless and unfeckless poor and those on just on PAYE without savings don't have to spend hours doing)....

I've never got a tax crdit in my life. I've never even realyl had maternity rights but in a sense that's why I did well. The lack of that cushion means I had to earn more and work harder.

But it all comes back to what Dickens said - family income 20 ounds and spending 21 result, misery.Family income 20 pounds and spending 19 shillings result happiness.

I have things mumsnetters could market on commission. There is always money to be made if you think laterally.

It is not just earning £70K but having the deposit to buy a £250K house.

True. I read an interesting article about companies which let you guard their properties and you virtually live rent free but not those with families. Those people did that for 2 or 3 years ni London and paid very very little rent and got their deposit through saving their wages.

Oh Xenia can I come and blacklead your steps and lick your shoes clean every day. I'd love to come and work for someone as considerate and philanthropic as you

Yeah well, she's on £240 an hour. She hardly sees the world in the same way that the other 99.9% of the population do.

The OP did have a point about some of the posters on MN...